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Author Topic: Did I sin?  (Read 2938 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Did I sin?
« on: December 20, 2015, 09:13:07 PM »
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  • After Church I was with my parents. They don't go to my traditional chapel because they are Novus Ordo. My mother had not yet gone to Church and they decided to go to a Novus Ordo church that was in the area. I never go to the Novus Ordo, but since I was with them and had nothing else to do, I went to the Novus Ordo service with them. It was horrible of course, but no worse than the normal Novus Ordo service in my area. There were no clowns or anything. I did not pray or take any part in the service I was just there and I watched what was going on. I was thinking of what Bishop Williamson said about the Novus Ordo that it was not always wrong or a sin to go to the Novus Ordo so I figured that it was alright to go with my parents instead of waiting outside in the cold. Was I wrong? Do you think it was a sin for me to go even though I only went to stay out of the cold and because I had nothing else to do and I did not go there to worship.


    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 09:59:16 PM »
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  • Sin is in the will.  Sounds like you went to appease your parents and did not will to go, so you did not sin.


    Offline OHCA

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 10:12:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Sin is in the will.  Sounds like you went to appease your parents and did not will to go, so you did not sin.


    This is conciliarist hogwash feel-good off-the-cuff reasoning.

    If the person is fully cognizant that the NO "mass" is a sacrilege, then he sinned by attending.  It doesn't matter that it was to "appease parents!"  Hogwash!  He did not will to go?!?!  Laughable "logic!"  There was no mention of his being dragged in kicking and screaming.  Thus, I'm left to assume that his ass shuffled through the door of his own volition.  His conscience nagging at him about it doesn't mean that he didn't will to do it--it just means that he knew he shouldn't have.

    Offline Matthew

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 10:43:10 PM »
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  • Sounds like you're a Trad who knows the Novus Ordo is bad/dangerous.

    Therefore you should avoid it. Period.

    I think passive attendance at weddings/funerals for social reasons would be permitted, but no active participation.

    Since you bring up Bishop Williamson, I have to clarify his position for you. He never said we (trads) could go to the Novus Ordo. That's not what he said at all. He wishes that everyone could have their eyes opened to the evils and dangers of the Novus Ordo, and leave their parish churches forever (until the Crisis is over) to attend only Traditional Mass venues thenceforth.

    But that doesn't mean God will abandon every old Grandma who foolishly and ignorantly attends the Novus Ordo.

    Look how many current Trads were Novus Ordo at one time. So that suggests God is writing straight with crooked lines, or something. There might be grace there -- perhaps just actual grace, but still some kind of grace(s) for those who honestly seek God and his will, but unfortunately are in ignorance through no fault of their own. I speak of actual graces to find the truth eventually.

    But above all, we are not God, and we have to leave God room to be God.
    Some things are a mystery. Remember, countless heresies (including the conciliar religion) spring from a desire to simplify or remove various mysteries. But as simple-minded creatures of limited intelligence, we NEED to deal with a certain amount of mystery if we're to grasp certain truths!
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    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 01:01:56 AM »
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  • I would ask a good traditional catholic priest and certainly do not take advice from a forum.
    I would not concur with the responses above only to say that no masses should be avoided but sinful I don't think so.


    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #5 on: December 21, 2015, 01:15:24 AM »
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  • Not only can attending a Novus Ordo Mass be very damaging to your soul, but also it can scandalize others, your parents, and your friends.

    Definitely this is an ask your priest question, so that you will know what to do next time this happens.

    I have attended a Novus Ordo funeral with the permission of my priest as a sign of respect for the deceased, but I was asked not to participate in any way.

    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #6 on: December 21, 2015, 02:21:08 PM »
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  • The reason I asked the forum was because I wanted to see what other trads thought about it. A few years ago I confessed going to the Novus Ordo as a sin, but my SSPX priest told me it wasn't a sin, but I wasn't sure if he was right because our priests do not know everything. So that was part of the reason why I just went to the Novus Ordo Mass instead of just waiting outside in the cold, but now that I think about it it seems wrong to go to the Novus Ordo even though my old priest told me it was not a sin. So I think I will confess it again just in case it is a sin and I will see what my new priest says.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #7 on: December 21, 2015, 05:27:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew

    I think passive attendance at weddings/funerals for social reasons would be permitted, but no active participation.


    This.  This is how the Catholic Church views attending non-Catholic services.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #8 on: December 21, 2015, 05:41:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Matthew

    I think passive attendance at weddings/funerals for social reasons would be permitted, but no active participation.


    This.  This is how the Catholic Church views attending non-Catholic services.  

    But we do not always treat the Novus Ordo as another religion. For example it is my understanding that when people convert from false religions they are required to make an abjuration of heresy denouncing their false religion. But when Novus Ordo Catholics convert to tradition they are not treated as if they were members of a false religion and they are not required to make an abjuration.

    Offline OHCA

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #9 on: December 21, 2015, 05:47:43 PM »
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  • The NO "mass" is worse than attending a protestant because of the element of sacrilege.  It is a sacrilege in that it either 1) mocks/imitates concecration, or 2) actually effects concecration and threats the Real Presence disrespectfully.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #10 on: December 21, 2015, 05:47:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Matthew

    I think passive attendance at weddings/funerals for social reasons would be permitted, but no active participation.


    This.  This is how the Catholic Church views attending non-Catholic services.  

    But we do not always treat the Novus Ordo as another religion. For example it is my understanding that when people convert from false religions they are required to make an abjuration of heresy denouncing their false religion. But when Novus Ordo Catholics convert to tradition they are not treated as if they were members of a false religion and they are not required to make an abjuration.


    Well, it all gets back to the lack of legitimate authority.  In the absence of such we must decide whether the NO is Catholic or not and then respond accordingly.  IMO, the fact that "we do not always" treat the Novus Ordo as another religion is part of the problem..and the reason why you (and others) do not know whether to attend it or not.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #11 on: December 21, 2015, 06:52:51 PM »
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  • If you recognize the post V2 popes as legitimate, you recognize the Novus Ordo as legitimate by proxy because if they're true popes, they can't institute a heretical rite.

    So, if you believe they are, then no. But if yes, maybe.

    Offline OHCA

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #12 on: December 21, 2015, 06:55:39 PM »
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  • So who believes that the NO Mass is definitely valid and IS NOT disrespectful to the Body of Christ?

    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #13 on: December 21, 2015, 07:17:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    IMO, the fact that "we do not always" treat the Novus Ordo as another religion is part of the problem..and the reason why you (and others) do not know whether to attend it or not.

    I personally do not want to go to the Novus Ordo, but I do not know if it is a sin or not to attend passively like I did with my parents. It seems to me that it might be a sin, but I respect the opinions of the SSPX priest I asked about it who told me it was not a sin, another SSPX priest who said it was okay to attend the Novus Ordo passively while not participating (not just for weddings and funerals), and of Bishop Williamson who despite Matthew's objection above, clearly believes it is not always a sin to go to the Novus Ordo because he said it was ok for the lady who asked him to go to the Novus Ordo. I could also add the opinion of Bishop Fellay who famously attended a Novus Ordo Mass in a convent and highly praised it publicly.

    Änσnymσus

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    Did I sin?
    « Reply #14 on: December 21, 2015, 08:23:56 PM »
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  •   Pray most of prayers if not all you can in Latin.
    That way you will have clear insight to Christ. THe
    latin in my life has held me together and i much blessed.