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Author Topic: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing  (Read 4649 times)

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Anonymous

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Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2019, 09:00:24 PM »
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  • The same chapel has just uploaded a video showing the new postures for Mass, which can be seen here:


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #31 on: January 02, 2019, 09:02:32 PM »
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    Both of these were true popes, but they were NOT solid.  The last good pope we had was Pope St Pius X; that's over 100 years ago.  Since his death, modernism came out from underground, blossomed and spread its errors everywhere, especially while Pius XI and XII were popes.  Neither of them consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  They failed in this and in other ways.


    That was me.

    Further, the push towards "active participation" was wrong (and still is).  It was a push to prepare the way for the singing/dancing of the novus ordo.

    p.s.  It is absolutely retarded that this thread is on the "anonymous" board.  Whoever started this needs to grow up.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #32 on: January 02, 2019, 09:12:39 PM »
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  • Both of these were true popes, but they were NOT solid.  The last good pope we had was Pope St Pius X; that's over 100 years ago.  Since his death, modernism came out from underground, blossomed and spread its errors everywhere, especially while Pius XI and XII were popes.  Neither of them consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  They failed in this and in other ways.
    Yep.
    Pius XI betrayed the Cristeros in Mexico, suppressed Action Francaise, introduced "active participation," and expanded the experimental dialogue Mass of Benedict XV (to name just a few of his shortcomings).
    Pius XII went even further and butchered the Holy Week rites (and along with the dialogue Mass which prepared the way for this tampering, itself prepared the way for the Novus Ordo). 

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #33 on: January 02, 2019, 09:14:57 PM »
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  • That was me.

    Further, the push towards "active participation" was wrong (and still is).  It was a push to prepare the way for the singing/dancing of the novus ordo.

    p.s.  It is absolutely retarded that this thread is on the "anonymous" board.  Whoever started this needs to grow up.
    Why?  The person obviously didn't want to be identified at their chapel, which is exactly why we have an anonymous sub-forum.  If not for that, this info may never have come to public light.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #34 on: January 02, 2019, 09:20:18 PM »
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  • Why?  The person obviously didn't want to be identified at their chapel, which is exactly why we have an anonymous sub-forum.  If not for that, this info may never have come to public light.
    Absolutely right.  There could be numerous reasons/scenarios for being extra vigilant about one's identity.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #35 on: January 02, 2019, 09:37:07 PM »
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    Why?  The person obviously didn't want to be identified at their chapel, which is exactly why we have an anonymous sub-forum.  If not for that, this info may never have come to public light.
    I guess so, but this site is already anonymous, using usernames.  I would challenge the person to stand up for what is right, post what they think is wrong and practice some catholic fortitude!  I know that may not be popular and people may not like you or they might be mean, but the Faith is worth such a persecution!  Besides, if your posts lead to discussion then maybe those that are against you will change their minds after talking face-to-face?  

    I just view the anonymous forum as used for delicate moral/personal questions, not liturgy questions, which are pretty cut-and-dry.  If someone is going to attack you over a liturgy question, they don't deserve your friendship.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 08:50:57 AM »
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  • Did you just get hatched out of an egg?  The link above shows it was Pius XI and the modernist liturgists like Dom Lanbert Beauduin and Cardinal Mercier who considered "active participation" as "standing and singing and responding, like the choir and the altar servers," not me.  You are not condemning me (who rejects those innovations), but Pius XI who introduced them at the behest of the modernists who lobbied him to do so.
    So, active participation means to you standing up and singing and responding, just as I thought. That was exactly the mindset of all the priests that went with the Novus Ordo. The French went along with your "active" participation in the 1930's and on big time, and today less than 4% of French go to mass, so that's no solution. There is nothing wrong with standing and singing, however, the responding (Dialogue Mass)is a novelty, invented in the late 1920's. Moreover, no English speaking country went along with the Dialogue mass, it was completely rejected, and this is the most important point, you are wanting to change the customs of other countries to a French liturgical movement. We do not know, nor do we need to know the customs of other countries, so there is no way we could know if the priest making all these changes is winging it, inventing his own mass, or if it really is a custom in his country. We know what has been done in America for 400+years, and what was done at that mass in Sanford is a novelty. I hope the prior has eyes to see that, and ditches the practice. 
    Do you also think having a conductor in front of the congregation waving his limp wrist is a good thing? 

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #37 on: January 03, 2019, 09:15:23 AM »
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  • I think this is just more of this church going through another phase in the revoluton, it seems like Florida is the stomping ground or testing center for a lot of the neo-SSPX ways. When the pastor got there, he literally flipped the church around. E.g. the stations of the cross from one side to the other, The Blessed Mother to the other side, St. Joseph to the other side. It's been documented on here several fishy things; priests being assigned to Florida and then leaving the priesthood or SSPX in general or even the prior stalking laity that would go to Resistence Mass centers. The priory being built first so the priests can have their wine happy hours in comfort while the school is still raising funds to get out of portables (the bulletin's announcements for the school - 3 out of 4 announcements are money related). Florida is a bit of cult of personality to say the least. A lot of things are hush-hush even with Fr. Hopkins died it seemed like he was burried quick with little questions answered and the SSPX took over that church too. Not implying that anything happened, but it just seems odd.


    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #38 on: January 03, 2019, 09:53:16 AM »
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  • So, active participation means to you standing up and singing and responding, just as I thought. That was exactly the mindset of all the priests that went with the Novus Ordo. The French went along with your "active" participation in the 1930's and on big time, and today less than 4% of French go to mass, so that's no solution. There is nothing wrong with standing and singing, however, the responding (Dialogue Mass)is a novelty, invented in the late 1920's. Moreover, no English speaking country went along with the Dialogue mass, it was completely rejected, and this is the most important point, you are wanting to change the customs of other countries to a French liturgical movement. We do not know, nor do we need to know the customs of other countries, so there is no way we could know if the priest making all these changes is winging it, inventing his own mass, or if it really is a custom in his country. We know what has been done in America for 400+years, and what was done at that mass in Sanford is a novelty. I hope the prior has eyes to see that, and ditches the practice.
    Do you also think having a conductor in front of the congregation waving his limp wrist is a good thing?
    You obviously lack reading comprehension 

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #39 on: January 03, 2019, 09:56:41 AM »
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  • So, active participation means to you standing up and singing and responding, just as I thought. That was exactly the mindset of all the priests that went with the Novus Ordo. The French went along with your "active" participation in the 1930's and on big time, and today less than 4% of French go to mass, so that's no solution. There is nothing wrong with standing and singing, however, the responding (Dialogue Mass)is a novelty, invented in the late 1920's. Moreover, no English speaking country went along with the Dialogue mass, it was completely rejected, and this is the most important point, you are wanting to change the customs of other countries to a French liturgical movement. We do not know, nor do we need to know the customs of other countries, so there is no way we could know if the priest making all these changes is winging it, inventing his own mass, or if it really is a custom in his country. We know what has been done in America for 400+years, and what was done at that mass in Sanford is a novelty. I hope the prior has eyes to see that, and ditches the practice.
    Do you also think having a conductor in front of the congregation waving his limp wrist is a good thing?
    Presumably this is directed to me, but you are too stupid to see that I am agreeing with everything you are saying.  You must be a very hard person to get along with if that is typical of you.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 10:35:53 AM »
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  • Presumably this is directed to me, but you are too stupid to see that I am agreeing with everything you are saying.  You must be a very hard person to get along with if that is typical of you.
    So you say you agree with everything I said? I never saw you say you did anywhere:

    So, active participation means to you standing up and singing and responding, just as I thought. That was exactly the mindset of all the priests that went with the Novus Ordo.
     
    The French went along with your "active" participation in the 1930's and on big time, and today less than 4% of French go to mass, so that's no solution.
     
    There is nothing wrong with standing and singing, however, the responding (Dialogue Mass)is a novelty, invented in the late 1920's.
     
    Moreover, no English speaking country went along with the Dialogue mass, it was completely rejected, and this is the most important point, you are wanting to change the customs of other countries to a French liturgical movement. We do not know, nor do we need to know the customs of other countries, so there is no way we could know if the priest making all these changes is winging it, inventing his own mass, or if it really is a custom in his country.
     
    We know what has been done in America for 400+years, and what was done at that mass in Sanford is a novelty. I hope the prior has eyes to see that, and ditches the practice.
     
     
     
     
     
    You agree that having a conductor in front of the congregation waving his limp wrist is a novelty.
     


    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #41 on: January 03, 2019, 10:38:03 AM »
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  • If you agree with everything I've said then I guess you also agree with this, since it is just expounding further on everything I said:


    Don’t get me wrong, one should participate in the mass, however, the problem is the mindset that the only way to participate is to show it by standing, singing and responding out loud as if one were the chorus and the altar server. As I said before, real participation is internal, and someone singing and responding may not be participating in the mass internally at all, while someone who is silent during the whole mass may be really participating internally. You can have a congregation that stands, sings and  responds and yet are not participating at all in the mass and their mind is on the outfit they are wearing and whether the men are paying attention to their short dresses and tight tops and a million other things. This I call the punch your card in on Sunday Catholics, where they go and sing stand/ sit in military order like sheep and never really participate internally, and then they go to live the other 166 hours of the week wearing short shorts, fornicating, adultery, cheating others in business, lying……  No, there is nothing wrong with real participation however, whenever anyone talks of active participation let it be a big red flag, you are dealing with a lover of novelty, a person who thinks they invented the end all be all to save the Church.

     

    The proponents of this active participation and communism have much in common.

     

    Communism has resulted in  = Stalin and the USSR, the Iron Curtain, Siberia, Mao and China , Vietnam, North Korea, Pol Pot Cambodia, Castro Cuba, Hugo Chavez and Maduro Venezuela…… but all the communist idealist say that those are not real communists that that is not real communism and then go on to speak of a communist Utopia.

     

    Active participation has resulted in = the Holy Week mass changes of 1954, the mass changes practically every year thereafter, and eventually the Novus Ordo mass, conga masses, Black Gospel masses, Hindu masses…. And homosexual clergy. But all the proponents of stand/sing/respond (active participation) say that the Novus  Ordo is not real active participation, that it is theological error that is to blame. They say that had active participation been done right, the world would have been changed.

     

    Communist and proponents of active participation are both dreamers living in unreality.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #42 on: January 03, 2019, 10:50:55 AM »
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  • The new Society is preparing you for”active” participation.

    They are implementing the changes to the missal now so when it comes, it looks like "nothing has changed". The water keeps warming and the frogs are content.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #43 on: January 03, 2019, 10:52:56 AM »
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    Did you just get hatched out of an egg? ...You obviously lack reading comprehension ….you are too stupid to see...You must be a very hard person to get along with if that is typical of you


    I would suggest that you not take debates like this personally, we had exchanged like one posting and you switched to just ad-hominem attacks. That is not a good sign. I try never to insult anyone because they might really be troubled. I love God and myself, and I do not put other people down because they may not be as fortunate as me and would really be hurt by such insults as you have posted.

    Anonymous

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    Re: Dialogue Mass/leading the choir in singing
    « Reply #44 on: January 03, 2019, 11:00:21 AM »
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  • If you agree with everything I've said then I guess you also agree with this, since it is just expounding further on everything I said:


    Don’t get me wrong, one should participate in the mass, however, the problem is the mindset that the only way to participate is to show it by standing, singing and responding out loud as if one were the chorus and the altar server. As I said before, real participation is internal, and someone singing and responding may not be participating in the mass internally at all, while someone who is silent during the whole mass may be really participating internally. You can have a congregation that stands, sings and  responds and yet are not participating at all in the mass and their mind is on the outfit they are wearing and whether the men are paying attention to their short dresses and tight tops and a million other things. This I call the punch your card in on Sunday Catholics, where they go and sing stand/ sit in military order like sheep and never really participate internally, and then they go to live the other 166 hours of the week wearing short shorts, fornicating, adultery, cheating others in business, lying……  No, there is nothing wrong with real participation however, whenever anyone talks of active participation let it be a big red flag, you are dealing with a lover of novelty, a person who thinks they invented the end all be all to save the Church.

     

    The proponents of this active participation and communism have much in common.

     

    Communism has resulted in  = Stalin and the USSR, the Iron Curtain, Siberia, Mao and China , Vietnam, North Korea, Pol Pot Cambodia, Castro Cuba, Hugo Chavez and Maduro Venezuela…… but all the communist idealist say that those are not real communists that that is not real communism and then go on to speak of a communist Utopia.

     

    Active participation has resulted in = the Holy Week mass changes of 1954, the mass changes practically every year thereafter, and eventually the Novus Ordo mass, conga masses, Black Gospel masses, Hindu masses…. And homosexual clergy. But all the proponents of stand/sing/respond (active participation) say that the Novus  Ordo is not real active participation, that it is theological error that is to blame. They say that had active participation been done right, the world would have been changed.

     

    Communist and proponents of active participation are both dreamers living in unreality.
    Yes, I have agreed with all of this for decades.
    Somewhere in my description of Pius XI’s liberal idea of active participation, you misunderstood me, and took me to mean that true active participation was singing, standing, etc.  In reality I was ascribing that to Pius XI, but I do not agree with him (or Mercier, Beauduin, etc) at all.
    I thought you were deliberately misconstruing what I was saying as a debate tactic, and allowed myself to get frustrated, but I can see now that was not the case (and even if it was, it would still not justify uncharitable pejorative, for which I now apologize).

     

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