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Author Topic: Confession and scrupulosity  (Read 9493 times)

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Offline jvk

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Re: Confession and scrupulosity
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2021, 04:12:37 PM »
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  • However, I have a question in relation to the above. I understand that if you accidentally forgot something in confession, then you should confess it the next time but, my concern is with remembering past mortal sins, whether relatively recently (say a few months ago) or in the distant past. These are mortal sins and I feel compelled to confess them but, my confessor tells me not to confess anything from the past. This is what really is upsetting my scruples. I feel like since, when I try to confess anything from the past and the priest basically shuts me down and says "nothing from the past!" I'm therefore omitting mortal sins (albeit not intentionally; in fact, I strongly desire to confess them). I just want to confess everything I can remember so as to complete the process of reconciliation with God
    I'm assuming with your worries you've made a General Confession.  I actually had this problem myself.  When I told the priest about it, he asked if I'd made a good general confession.  When I said "yes", he then told me, "Then it was forgiven.  Do not worry about it further."  So now when I wonder, I remember that advice.  I think that your confessor is trying to help you stay focused on now because dwelling on past sins -- especially those of purity -- can actually lead to new sins.  
    Follow his advice!
    I was also thinking you might try reading "Peace of Soul" by ???? , and "Introduction to the Devout Life" by St Francis de Sales.  Excellent books.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #61 on: July 18, 2021, 04:32:52 PM »
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  • OP here, the same one who had the issue with the multiple general confessions.

    I just got out of Mass moments ago. The confession went I was able to confess basically everything that I wanted to without interruption. I ask me if I could confess three mortal sins that I had remembered that I felt compelled to confess and the priest said no so I continued onward. After confessing that I had made a general confession this previous Sunday and explained further details oh, he basically told me that he will absolve me but, if I continue to not obey his directives it would probably be best if I go to a different church / chapel which really stung. This Chapel is the only one that is within a reasonable distance that I can travel to weekly. The other two chapels I've gone to I've had to travel, in one instance over 100 miles and the priest there was in my opinion very uncompassionate and I said I would never go back to that one again. The other place where I made my last general confession is over 300 miles away but the priest there was extremely nice, compassionate and understanding. One of the things I was concerned about was perhaps being kicked out of the chapel but, at least he gave me another chance. I'm going to try to stick to his directives even if I find it personally difficult and as if my mind is in a constant war with itself. Could any of you offer any thoughts for advice on this matter?

    Additionally, another thing that I was concerned about was after receiving Holy Communion today, I kept the Eucharist in my mouth while praying upon returning to my pew. While I was praying, naturally, I had to build up with saliva and some seem to have dripped from the side of my mouth which caused a numbing sensation. I ended up having it down with the cuff of my sleeve. When I got out to the car, I noticed I had some pieces of white on my cuff indicating that some of the Eucharist ended up on my shirt. This caused me to immediately panic and, not knowing what to do in the situation, I tried to lick off as much of the remnants of it as I could. I'm worried that this could be a sacrilege or if I did something wrong in this regard. What should I do? Should I do something with the shirt? Would washing it while it might possibly still have the remains of the body and blood of Christ on it be sinful? What is the proper protocol for this?

    Once again, thanks for your help everyone and I look forward to any thoughts, advice, or help you could offer. God bless you all.


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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #62 on: July 18, 2021, 04:42:17 PM »
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  • Another thing that has been haunting my mind: when I made my general confession last Sunday. I was wearing a jacket since it was rainy and chilly that morning but by the time I was able to go to the confessional which in that particular chapel consists of two closets--one for the penitent the other for the priest--it was already around 11 am and the summer heat started making an appearance. I didn't take my jacket off and while I was in the confessional it was getting extremely hot and was sweating profusely. I also hadn't eaten that morning and I started feeling kind of nauseous. 

    By the time that I completed the general confession and it was time to make my Act of Contrition, I was feeling like I was almost going to pass out. I was able to say the Act of Contrition but I felt like I was just rattling it off out of memory rather than being able to actually focus on what I was saying while being sincere and heartfelt one due to feeling as if I was about to pass out due to both, the stress, my high blood pressure, and the sweltering heat. I certainly was contrite and I meant what I said but, because I was feeling like I was going to pass out and not focusing intently on the prayer, I was concerned about the validity of my last general confession. Was that truly sufficient?

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #63 on: July 18, 2021, 05:00:41 PM »
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  • Additionally, another thing that I was concerned about was after receiving Holy Communion today, I kept the Eucharist in my mouth while praying upon returning to my pew. While I was praying, naturally, I had to build up with saliva and some seem to have dripped from the side of my mouth which caused a numbing sensation. I ended up having it down with the cuff of my sleeve. When I got out to the car, I noticed I had some pieces of white on my cuff indicating that some of the Eucharist ended up on my shirt. This caused me to immediately panic and, not knowing what to do in the situation, I tried to lick off as much of the remnants of it as I could. I'm worried that this could be a sacrilege or if I did something wrong in this regard. What should I do? Should I do something with the shirt? Would washing it while it might possibly still have the remains of the body and blood of Christ on it be sinful? What is the proper protocol for this?

    Once again, thanks for your help everyone and I look forward to any thoughts, advice, or help you could offer. God bless you all.
    Lick off any visible specs of the Host. Get a clean bucket, put the shirt in it, fill with warm water, let it soak to dissolve any particles, dump the water outside not down the drain. You did not do it intentionally so don't worry about it.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #64 on: July 18, 2021, 05:12:35 PM »
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  •  I'm going to try to stick to his directives even if I find it personally difficult and as if my mind is in a constant war with itself. Could any of you offer any thoughts for advice on this matter?
    That's the proper attitude. It may be difficult and take some time but stick with it. :pray:


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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #65 on: July 18, 2021, 06:26:07 PM »
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  • Lick off any visible specs of the Host. Get a clean bucket, put the shirt in it, fill with warm water, let it soak to dissolve any particles, dump the water outside not down the drain. You did not do it intentionally so don't worry about it.
    Thank you very much for the help. That is a relief. How long would you recommend that I soak it for before dumping the water outside? Should I try to scrub down the area where it was (without soap obviously)? I'm also trying to think of the most respectful place I could dump the water. Would under a tree be good? Once that is done, is it ok to throw the shirt in the washing machine and then the dryer?

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #66 on: July 18, 2021, 07:27:03 PM »
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  • I had went out to dinner and had an alcoholic beverage about an hour after Mass. I just got home and placed the shirt in a bucket of warm water but before that I licked off any possible residue from the Eucharist but then I realized that, considering how you're supposed to fast at least 3 hours before receiving Holy Communion, if I accidentally committed a sacrilege by licking off the remainder after having had dinner and a drink shortly before placing it in the bucket of warm water. What should I do?

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #67 on: July 18, 2021, 07:33:44 PM »
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  • Thank you very much for the help. That is a relief. How long would you recommend that I soak it for before dumping the water outside? Should I try to scrub down the area where it was (without soap obviously)? I'm also trying to think of the most respectful place I could dump the water. Would under a tree be good? Once that is done, is it ok to throw the shirt in the washing machine and then the dryer?
    Licking it off was done to prevent a sacrilege, no fasting required even for a layman.
    I'd leave it soak overnight, if there are any particles that will dissolve them. Agitating the shirt in the water a bit would be good. Wring it out then wash as normal. Under a tree is fine, the main thing is not to pour it into a sewer.


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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #68 on: July 18, 2021, 08:21:57 PM »
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  • Licking it off was done to prevent a sacrilege, no fasting required even for a layman.
    I'd leave it soak overnight, if there are any particles that will dissolve them. Agitating the shirt in the water a bit would be good. Wring it out then wash as normal. Under a tree is fine, the main thing is not to pour it into a sewer.
    Thanks again.
    I'm also glad that this thread has served to help another anonymous individual who is going through a nearly identical situation as to what I am going through.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #69 on: July 18, 2021, 08:25:36 PM »
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  • Another thing that has been haunting my mind: when I made my general confession last Sunday. I was wearing a jacket since it was rainy and chilly that morning but by the time I was able to go to the confessional which in that particular chapel consists of two closets--one for the penitent the other for the priest--it was already around 11 am and the summer heat started making an appearance. I didn't take my jacket off and while I was in the confessional it was getting extremely hot and was sweating profusely. I also hadn't eaten that morning and I started feeling kind of nauseous.

    By the time that I completed the general confession and it was time to make my Act of Contrition, I was feeling like I was almost going to pass out. I was able to say the Act of Contrition but I felt like I was just rattling it off out of memory rather than being able to actually focus on what I was saying while being sincere and heartfelt one due to feeling as if I was about to pass out due to both, the stress, my high blood pressure, and the sweltering heat. I certainly was contrite and I meant what I said but, because I was feeling like I was going to pass out and not focusing intently on the prayer, I was concerned about the validity of my last general confession. Was that truly sufficient?
    If anyone could give me some input on this particular issue, I'd greatly appreciate it.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #70 on: July 18, 2021, 08:33:38 PM »
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  •  I certainly was contrite and I meant what I said but, because I was feeling like I was going to pass out and not focusing intently on the prayer, I was concerned about the validity of my last general confession. Was that truly sufficient?
    Yes, you were sorry for your sins and did what you could in the moment.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #71 on: July 18, 2021, 08:56:44 PM »
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  • ...... he basically told me that he will absolve me but, if I continue to not obey his directives it would probably be best if I go to a different.....

    I'm going to try to stick to his directives even if I find it personally difficult and as if my mind is in a constant war with itself. Could any of you offer any thoughts for advice on this matter.

    it seems you have been greatly blessed in your confessor. 

    The underlined brought to mind St Paul, who also found himself in the situation of being in constant war with himself, so you are in good company.

    [15] For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do. 
    [15] "I do not that good which I will": The apostle here describes the disorderly motions of passion and concupiscence; which oftentimes in us get the start of reason: and by means of which even good men suffer in the inferior appetite what their will abhors: and are much hindered in the accomplishment of the desires of their spirit and mind. But these evil motions, (though they are called the law of sin, because they come from original sin, and violently tempt and incline to sin,) as long as the will does not consent to them, are not sins, because they are not voluntary.
    [16] If then I do that which I will not, I consent to the law, that it is good. [17]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not. [19] For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do. [20] Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
    [21] I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me. [22] For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members. [24]Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.
    Romans 7
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #72 on: July 18, 2021, 09:14:44 PM »
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  • By the time that I completed the general confession and it was time to make my Act of Contrition, I was feeling like I was almost going to pass out. I was able to say the Act of Contrition but I felt like I was just rattling it off out of memory rather than being able to actually focus on what I was saying while being sincere and heartfelt one due to feeling as if I was about to pass out due to both, the stress, my high blood pressure, and the sweltering heat. I certainly was contrite and I meant what I said but, because I was feeling like I was going to pass out and not focusing intently on the prayer, I was concerned about the validity of my last general confession. Was that truly sufficient?

    The underlined section is perfect contrition.    You made an act of perfect contrition.  You are letting your feelings replace your faith which faith is an act of the will.
    We all have feelings like you describe but recognise that if we let them dominate our thoughts/actions/intentions resulting in confusion and lack of trust - then it is a bad fruit and comes from the devil.   When you start to doubt yourself, close your eyes and silently offer your suffering to God in perfect trust and peace.  Do it every time and you will be indulging in true meditation.  Show outwardly your trust in God by trusting and obeying your Confessor.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #73 on: July 18, 2021, 11:13:24 PM »
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  • Another question: I might have already asked this or something akin to a previously but, in the context of my recent confession today. 

    When the priest said, and I'm paraphrasing here to the best of my memory, "well, if you're not going to follow my directives I don't want that on me so next time it happens I'll ask you to go to a different church"; that really stung. I wasn't intentionally trying to disobey him or do anything wrong. Basically, I got the impression that he would have preferred if I went elsewhere since, evidently, he thinks I'm a nuisance who's taking up too much of his time and that of other people seeking confession who are already better catechized and regimented when it comes to confession than I am. 

    Ironically, in the confessional he made the classic comparison of the confessor as a doctor and the penitent as a patient. What immediately sprung to mind while he was saying this was that "yes, but sometimes we go to another doctor for a second opinion" (I didn't actually say this but, it was what I was thinking). Lately, he's seemed rather cold and I get the impression he views me as a nuisance or a burden. While I understand where he's coming from, I'm relatively new to the traditional scene so I'm hardly an expert on moral theology. There are a lot of unique situations that occur in our modern world which it's not easy to find answers to as to whether or not they're sins which is why I bring up things that I'm confused about in the confessional. 

    Out of the 7 total SSPX priests that I've confessed to since I began attending, only 2 of them had this irritable--and what I feel to be rather presumptuous and uncharitable--attitude and treated me as if I was a nuisance for wanting to make a good confession. Perhaps I'm being too sensitive but, I think it is a fair assessment considering how I've been snapped at and also based on the body language. Look, I'm not expecting to be treated with kid gloves or with special treatment but, I do suffer from several diagnosed severe anxiety and stress disorders due to a lot of psychological trauma that I've endured since I was a kid. These can often make social interaction and especially self-advocacy difficult, especially in a solemn and serious place like church where I obviously do not wish to be irreverent or disrespectful. 

    To draw a comparison: of how the 2 priests who I think, based on my own personal experiences with them, have shown a lack of charity, patience and compassion likely due to their own personal temperaments acted in comparison to the 5 other priests who I think handled the situation with charity, patience, compassion, and a willingness to understand my situation when it came to the issue of confessing things that I wasn't sure where sins:

    1. The two priests would audibly make their frustration known by sighing, snapping at me and saying things like "*Sigh* do you have any real sins to confess?" Overall making me feel like I was wasting their time and to hurry up and get out of the confessional to make room for people who have "real" problems in comparison to mine which they seem to perceive as meaningless. They just seem to chalk it up to scrupulosity and don't seem to consider that, despite having scrupulosity, I may actually have a legitimate mortal sin that I need to confess. Instead, these two priests would both essentially say, despite me not being done with my confession, okay, we're done here. They didn't seem to realize nor would they allow me to explain that I had stuff which I knew were mortal sins in my list that I hadn't gotten to yet.

    2. Meanwhile the priest the who heard my general confession was extremely kind, patient, and understanding. If I said something that wasn't a sin but, was unsure about, he just chuckled and said "Oh, that's not a sin. Don't worry about it." Same thing with the others.

    The difference in the temperament was more than obvious to me.

    Confession can be nerve wracking so you'd think they would want to make it as welcoming of an experience as possible but, honestly I think the two priests in question are just burnt out.

    So, given that context, I'm wondering if I need to confess criticizing my confessor next week. I don't think I said anything insulting, slanderous, or libelous about him to others whom I've spoken to about this issue but I have expressed frustration and confoundment. But, I would say sadness and disappointment is more of an accurate description of my feelings and what I've said to others seeking counsel on the matter. Is this something I'm going to need to confess? It will certainly make the whole situation much more difficult and would probably finally seal the deal in him not wanting me to return to the chapel.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #74 on: July 19, 2021, 12:54:32 AM »
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  • It is painful and upsetting when a Priest is harsh and impatient, especially during confession when we are so vulnerable.
    For several years I was able to go to confession every week. I was often the first or second person in line and the Priest always seemed so harsh and grumpy. What I found over time though was that if I were fourth or fifth in line he was really pleasant. I think the poor guy just needed to warm up a bit and then he was OK.

    Remember the prayer posted earlier?
    Quote
    Lord help me to make a good confession, speak through Thy Priest help me to hear, love, and obey Thee.

    Over time I began to understand more clearly and deeply that we really are confessing to Jesus and that if I prayed and listened I would hear what I needed no matter how the Priest acted. I went back to being first in line.

    Also, as you learn and grow, your confessions will become more clear and succinct, less forced and more natural. It takes time, prayer, study. and Grace but it really is worth it.

    As far as criticizing Priests, nothing that you have described seems sinful (or at least not mortal). Detach as much as you are able from the raw emotions involved and do your best to seek what God is trying to teach you.

    Not to overburden you with devotions, but praying 7 Hail Marys in honor of our Lady's sorrows everyday will bring you some very helpful Graces.

    The Seven Sorrows or Dolors of Mary are listed below and a key to understanding them, and thus consoling her, is to recognise that the more she loved Jesus (and she loved Him perfectly) the more intensely sorrow filled her Immaculate Heart. Her martyrdom lasted 33 years, for St. Simeon revealed to her in excruciating detail what lay ahead for her dearest son, our Lord Jesus Christ. As such, all her joys became inexorably coloured with sorrow. And she endured these pains perfectly, with patience, humility and obedience, offering them to Almighty God for the salvation of poor sinners.

    1) The Prophecy of Simeon
    2) The Flight Into Egypt
    3) The Loss of the Child Jesus in the Temple
    4) Mary Meets Jesus on the Way to Calvary
    5) Jesus Dies on the Cross
    6) Mary Receives Jesus
    7) Jesus is Placed in the Tomb

    Graces and promises attached to the practice of the devotion in honour of the Blessed Virgin Mary Sorrowing:
    According to St. Alphonsus de Liguori (The Glories of Mary) it was revealed to Saint Elizabeth that at the request of Our Lady, Our Lord promised four principal graces to those devoted to Her Sorrows:
    1) That those who before death invoke the divine Mother in the name of Her Sorrows will obtain true repentance of all their sins;
    2) That He will protect all who have this devotion in their tribulations, and will protect them especially at the hour of death;
    3) That He will impress on their minds the remembrance of His Passion;
    4) That He will place such devout servants in Mother Mary’s hands to do with them as She wishes and to obtain for them all the graces She desires.

    In addition to these four graces there are also seven promises attached to the practice of daily praying seven Hail Marys while meditating on Our Lady’s Tears and Sorrows. These seven promises were revealed to St. Bridget of Sweden:

    1) “I will grant peace to their families.”
    2) “They will be enlightened about the divine Mysteries.”
    3) “I will console them in their pains and I will accompany them in their work.”
    4) “I will give them as much as they ask for as long as it does not oppose the adorable will of My divine Son or the sanctification of their souls.”
    5) “I will defend them in their spiritual battles with the infernal enemy and I will protect them at every instant of their lives.”
    6) “I will visibly help them at the moment of their death — they will see the face of their Mother.”
    7) “I have obtained this grace from My divine Son, that those who propagate this devotion to My tears and sorrows will be taken directly from this earthly life to eternal happiness, since all their sins will be forgiven and My Son will be their eternal consolation and joy.”