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Author Topic: Confession and scrupulosity  (Read 9517 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Confession and scrupulosity
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2021, 06:07:40 PM »
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  • My concern is that if I don't confess past sins then it's like omitting them and I still have them on my soul. I've always heard that if you forget something, confess it the next time you go to confession, that's all I've been trying to do. My concern is not making a good confession and, consequently, and receiving Holy Communion unworthily.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #46 on: July 17, 2021, 06:25:13 PM »
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  • Also, is the fact that I went to additional confessors and didn't obey the directives given by my regular Confessor considered a sin in and of itself? 

    In the "Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous" PDF file, it doesn't seem to give a concrete answer as it implies one thing but then says another:

    "#7. You shall obey your confessor when he tells you never to repeat a general confession of sins already confessed to him or another confessor.

    ... The entire scenario is made more complicated by the second component of this commandment: when penitents try to get around the rule by seeing additional confessors. It’s at least less than honest to seek out another confessor to engage in the repetitive behavior. It might even be a form of deceitful enterprise.

    ... The consistent directive of the great saints throughout the ages ... has been to follow God’s spiritual counsel in all things. When you choose a path that isn’t supported by his strong and guiding hand, you take a step backward in your own spiritual growth and development.

    It’s most certainly not a sin to choose not to follow his directives, but it’s counterproductive and not at all helpful."

    So was my last general confession even valid? The priest did absolved me and just told me to until my regular confessor this Sunday that I made a general confession last Sunday. I feel like I'm not really getting any answers when I asked anyone or that no one seems to really know.


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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #47 on: July 17, 2021, 07:24:20 PM »
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  • My concern is that if I don't confess past sins then it's like omitting them and I still have them on my soul. I've always heard that if you forget something, confess it the next time you go to confession, that's all I've been trying to do. My concern is not making a good confession and, consequently, and receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
    I'm in the same boat as you actually. It's also why I haven't gotten confirmed yet. If I'm forced to get confirmed or something I guess I'll just receive once per year since that's required I guess? I'm worried I'm going to end up becoming a home-aloner because I am afraid of confirmation. At the end of the day I don't trust my own mind enough to make valid confessions. That's not to say I don't trust in God's mercy (I 100% believe if He can forgive anything) but moreso that I'm not going to be able to ever make a truly valid confession. It's not that I don't desire the Eucharist but instead can't ever be trusted to make a good confession. I worry about the validity of my confessions more than anything else. I guess I'm a bit different than you in a sense because I've concealed this "problem", although I'm not even convinced I am being scrupulous... I can't know the interior content of other confessor's minds and I'm not going to ask for a "RAM dump" of their brain during confession so I can only safely assume that I am much like everyone else here and just few talk about it. I am probably just that much worse of a person than everyone else and that is the safe assumption to make, rather than my confessions are valid and I can approach Our Lord. I honestly am starting to think the entire idea of "scrupulosity" is a meme.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #48 on: July 17, 2021, 07:33:02 PM »
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  • Also, is the fact that I went to additional confessors and didn't obey the directives given by my regular Confessor considered a sin in and of itself?

    In the "Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous" PDF file, it doesn't seem to give a concrete answer as it implies one thing but then says another:

    "#7. You shall obey your confessor when he tells you never to repeat a general confession of sins already confessed to him or another confessor.

    ... The entire scenario is made more complicated by the second component of this commandment: when penitents try to get around the rule by seeing additional confessors. It’s at least less than honest to seek out another confessor to engage in the repetitive behavior. It might even be a form of deceitful enterprise.

    ... The consistent directive of the great saints throughout the ages ... has been to follow God’s spiritual counsel in all things. When you choose a path that isn’t supported by his strong and guiding hand, you take a step backward in your own spiritual growth and development.

    It’s most certainly not a sin to choose not to follow his directives, but it’s counterproductive and not at all helpful."

    So was my last general confession even valid? The priest did absolved me and just told me to until my regular confessor this Sunday that I made a general confession last Sunday. I feel like I'm not really getting any answers when I asked anyone or that no one seems to really know.
    Take a deep breath, relax. (I'm serious). God wants your salvation more than you do. It helps me to relax if I try to remember that I am really confessing to Jesus. I often pray "Lord help me to make a good confession, speak through Thy Priest help me to hear, love, and obey Thee."  
    I'm not sure why, but for some reason, St. Gabriel Possenti helps me greatly if I pray to him before confession. You might try praying to him or some other Saint that you are drawn to.

    Just tell the Priest that you are really struggling with scruples, have made multiple general confessions even when directed not to (that's enough detail, the Priest will ask you questions if he needs more info).

    Trust the Lord. If you pray what is recommended above, you'll be amazed (in a good way) at what you'll hear.
    Will pray for you, please remember me at Mass.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #49 on: July 17, 2021, 07:49:57 PM »
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  • At the end of the day I don't trust my own mind enough to make valid confessions.
    That's what causes scruples, trusting yourself. We have to take a leap of Faith and actually trust God. And we also must learn that it is His work in us that really matters. You must let go and trust.


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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #50 on: July 17, 2021, 08:28:00 PM »
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  • That's what causes scruples, trusting yourself. We have to take a leap of Faith and actually trust God. And we also must learn that it is His work in us that really matters. You must let go and trust.
    Thanks for your response. I haven't talked to anyone about this yet so this means a lot. It would seem as though if I don't make a valid confession that's on me, not God, right? It all boils down to this: If I don't have a reliable mind I can't ever make a valid confession. That's not to say I am despairing. Maybe I'm not getting what you are saying.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #51 on: July 17, 2021, 10:35:02 PM »
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  • Thanks for your response. I haven't talked to anyone about this yet so this means a lot. It would seem as though if I don't make a valid confession that's on me, not God, right? It all boils down to this: If I don't have a reliable mind I can't ever make a valid confession. That's not to say I am despairing. Maybe I'm not getting what you are saying.
    I'm not clear on what you mean by a reliable mind. Are you concerned that you're forgetting sins? Or are you having trouble identifying what may have been a sin? 

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #52 on: July 17, 2021, 10:58:44 PM »
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  • I'm not clear on what you mean by a reliable mind. Are you concerned that you're forgetting sins? Or are you having trouble identifying what may have been a sin?
    The former. At some times I think I'll remember a sin, forget to write it down and remember it later. This is only one formulation or species of this, but the point is... I am concerned that I am intentionally pushing sins out of my mind. Whether that confession is invalidated or not by this is not necessarily the problem at hand even. I try to write down all sins on paper and keep this for later but I'm not always in a position in which I can just whip out the notepad. I also think I potentially conceal sins from myself. Even doing a nightly examination of conscious I doubt I am doing this well enough. Ever since I converted and was made aware of the concept of mortal sin etc about a year and a half ago I am just in constant torture and I have to avoid confirmation and the Eucharist until I am clear. I know my priest will probably tell me something like the original poster so I intentionally avoid conversations with the priest or anyone else just so people figure I'm the quiet type that just takes my family to Mass and goes home.
    Thanks so much again for responding. You have no clue how much you are helping me. Thank God for getting me on this forum so I could have this conversation.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #53 on: July 18, 2021, 12:38:29 AM »
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  • We are indeed called to be perfect, but we cannot make ourselves perfect by our own efforts. We are creatures, human beings, that all deal with the effects of original sin. God expects us to do what we can. He does not expect the impossible.

    Torture is a good word to describe scruples; all the nagging doubts: what if I forgot this sin...what if I'm  hiding this sin... what if I'm not contrite...what if I didn't relate some detail when I confessed and misled the Priest...what if I should have known this was a sin...what if I made a bad confession and have to confess that now...
    It's like being trapped in a hall of mirrors; you see yourself (ie. your sins, faults, imperfections) everywhere you look. The problem is that they are all distorted images. That is why confessors often have to set a date and order scrupulous penitents to not confess anything from before that time. (ie. "I'm going to give you the absolution, you have a clean slate, in the future don't confess anything from before right now.") If they don't the penitent will be stuck in that state and will, eventually, despair.

    At first glance scruples seem horrible, and they are, but like all evils that God permits can be used for great good. Scrupulosity, used rightly, can engender humility (it's a great reminder of how weak we are), confidence in God (that's the only way through), and love of God (when we realize that he permitted it for our good).

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #54 on: July 18, 2021, 05:55:46 AM »
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  • I'm going to talk to you like I talk to one of my children.  It seems to me that you never had a good formation for Confession as a child, and now you're dealing with this as an adult.  

    There are 5 things needed to make a good confession.

    1.  Know your sins
    2.  Be sorry for your sins.
    3.  Make up your mind not to sin again
    4.  Tell your sins to the priest
    5.  Do the Penance the priest gives you.

    That's it.  Make a good examination of conscience.  NOT over and over.  ONE good honest one.  

    Then, ask for the graces to have a true sorrow for your sins.  This does NOT mean tears coursing down your cheeks every Confession!  The simple desire to have true sorrow--sorry because we've offended God--I repeat, the desire is enough.

    Have a firm purpose of amendment.  Not an "Oh, well, I'll just confess it so I can go to Holy Communion, but after confession I'll go ahead and keep stealing those candy bars (or whatever)!"

    Tell your sins--Now.  If you forget any...absolutely any...they are forgiven.  The important thing is to confess ALL mortal sins.  I think this is where you're getting hung up.  If you have honestly forgotten one in confession, it's still forgiven.  If you remember it later, it's ok to still go to Holy Communion--it's been forgiven, but you HAVE to confess that you forgot one at your next Confession.  But you didn't just make a bad confession!  If you have the honest will to confess all mortal sins, then Our Lord sees that.  He knows your true intent was to confess.  Since you're worried that you're pushing them out of your head, then you probably are NOT.  

    And of course, do your penance.

    If you fulfill all those, you've just made a good Confession.  

    I think that your problem is you tend to over think things.  Remember, in order to be a mortal sin, it has to fulfill 3 conditions.  1.  Serious matter   2.  Full consent
    3.  Done willingly (deliberate consent)

    Serious matter--killing a man vs punching someone?  Extorting thousands of dollars vs pennies of interest on a savings account?  

    You see? 

    My main advice to you would be to try to be more child-like.  Children are so simple and innocent; you've got to stop this!  Of course the devil doesn't want you to go to Holy Communion and tries to trick you into thinking you've made a bad confession.

    As someone else said, you must TRUST.  Pray for that grace!

    I would highly reccommend the book written by Mother Mary Loyola.  It's titled "My First Confession" and is written for 8-10 year olds.  It explains the purpose of Confession and tells you how to make a good one.  It's excellent; I enjoy reading it every time I teach my children!  Very quick read; you might want to look into it.  

    Good luck!  My prayers are with you.  And go to Holy Communion today!  If you're afraid you've made an unworthy confession, you probably just made a good one.  That devil is very very sneaky.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #55 on: July 18, 2021, 06:26:40 AM »
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  • Quote
    If I don't have a reliable mind I can't ever make a valid confession.
    Excellent advice from jvk.

    Especially to be like a child.

    You are too too much in your mind. Remember the devil traps us through our mind. But Jesus comes close to us if we be like children. It is a problem of our age.

    And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. [14] Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God.

    As a good child, trust and obey your Father, the one who stands in lieu of God for you to receive the graces you need.

    Confess, Communicate, and be Confirmed. You need all the graces you can get. You especially need the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #56 on: July 18, 2021, 08:49:43 AM »
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  • If you remember it later, it's ok to still go to Holy Communion--it's been forgiven, but you HAVE to confess that you forgot one at your next Confession.  
    Thank you for your post, it was very helpful. Thanks to everyone else as well. It is very much appreciated. 

    However, I have a question in relation to the above. I understand that if you accidentally forgot something in confession, then you should confess it the next time but, my concern is with remembering past mortal sins, whether relatively recently (say a few months ago) or in the distant past. These are mortal sins and I feel compelled to confess them but, my confessor tells me not to confess anything from the past. This is what really is upsetting my scruples. I feel like since, when I try to confess anything from the past and the priest basically shuts me down and says "nothing from the past!" I'm therefore omitting mortal sins (albeit not intentionally; in fact, I strongly desire to confess them). I just want to confess everything I can remember so as to complete the process of reconciliation with God.

    I feel like because I'm unable to confess them, they are still with me and I'm not fully absolved or, perhaps, out of trying to be obedient to the confessor and not trying hard enough to explain the situational context, I'm therefore making a sacrilege or something along those lines. 

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #57 on: July 18, 2021, 10:09:40 AM »
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  • I literally just remembered something now that has me extremely concerned. When I made my last General confession a week ago, the priest told me to say "one rosary" that day as a penance. By "one rosary," I assumed he meant five decades of the Joyful Mysteries (since it was Sunday). It just occurred to me that he might have meant the 15 decades and now I'm concerned that I didn't do my penance properly after making that general confession.

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #58 on: July 18, 2021, 10:20:42 AM »
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  • I literally just remembered something now that has me extremely concerned. 
    Don't worry about this thing. Being confused or mistaken about your penance would not invalidate your confession. Just pray a whole 15 decade rosary as soon as you can and mention the confusion about the penance to your priest if it still bothers you.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Confession and scrupulosity
    « Reply #59 on: July 18, 2021, 12:43:32 PM »
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  • Thank you for your post, it was very helpful. Thanks to everyone else as well. It is very much appreciated.

    However, I have a question in relation to the above. I understand that if you accidentally forgot something in confession, then you should confess it the next time but, my concern is with remembering past mortal sins, whether relatively recently (say a few months ago) or in the distant past. These are mortal sins and I feel compelled to confess them but, my confessor tells me not to confess anything from the past. This is what really is upsetting my scruples. I feel like since, when I try to confess anything from the past and the priest basically shuts me down and says "nothing from the past!" I'm therefore omitting mortal sins (albeit not intentionally; in fact, I strongly desire to confess them). I just want to confess everything I can remember so as to complete the process of reconciliation with God.

    I feel like because I'm unable to confess them, they are still with me and I'm not fully absolved or, perhaps, out of trying to be obedient to the confessor and not trying hard enough to explain the situational context, I'm therefore making a sacrilege or something along those lines.

    This post is, again, exactly why I came here for help and not a priest. My priest telling me that I can't confess anything from the past was going to eat me alive. Even posting in this thread made me feel alien, I felt like I was cheaply dodging a cross by asking for help. What's done is done and I really appreciate everyone helping me. Please pray for me and all others in this thread, God bless you all.