Author Topic: Confession and scrupulosity (Read 6946 times)

Änσnymσus · « **on:** June 21, 2021, 04:45:02 AM »

I just made a general confession to a visiting priest who was kind enough to hear me because I was concerned that I almost certainly have made bad confessions in the past due to carelessness in the past to the regular parish priest and was worried that many things I confessed in the past weren't absolved. The visiting priest was very kind and understanding.

I know that if you accidentally forget something in confession, the confession is still valid and you should confess what you remember the next time but, having scrupulosity and this being a general confession, I was still a bit nervous during confession and ended up only realizing later that I unintentionally misarticulated a few things:

For example, thinking back, I think I committed certain a sin only once but the way I worded it implied it happened more than once (as I couldn't remember with certainty) and I think in one instance the priest may not have entirely understood precisely what I was confessing though I tried to elaborate as best as I could and, likewise, in other instances he may not have understood what I meant but didn't ask for further elaboration.

In any case, I still had proper intention of confessing everything that I could remember and firm purpose of amendment. Did I still make a good confession? The priest whom I made the general confession to basically told me not to worry about confessing any past sins and just focus on the future, echoing what the regular parish priest has told me previously. Ideally, I would like to rectify these issues in my next confession since I want to make absolutely sure I did it properly so as not to commit a sacrilege by omitting anything and receiving Holy Communion unworthily but, I understand why the priests are telling me not worry about confessing any past sins going forward due to the scrupulosity. Still, I struggle with intrusive thoughts such as this.

I'm just curious if anyone could provide me with some further insight or perhaps some material that could help me with scrupulosity. Thanks.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2021, 05:49:34 AM »

Even though this is a recently published book, it should prove to be very helpful.

https://loretopubs.org/ebook-scruples-and-sainthood-overcoming-scrupulosity-with-the-help-of-the-saints.html

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2021, 08:21:46 AM »

You mentioned your "parish priest" -- if you are attending an Indult or even worse a Novus Ordo parish, you need to read up more on the Crisis in the Church.

With the Crisis in the Church, the state of the Church today, you should ONLY be attending Mass at some kind of "lifeboat" chapel, nothing accepted by Rome. Rome is modernist and could be argued to be schismatic -- they went into schism from the true Faith at Vatican II. It's basically a new religion. You can't have anything to do with that new religion.

The Catholic Faith, practiced by the Saints through the ages up till Vatican 2, and the new Conciliar Religion that was born at Vatican II, are irreconcilable. They blend together, or are compatible with each other, about as well as God and the devil.

Any priests who are "OK" with that new religion are inherently compromised, and will give you horrible advice, tainted sermons, etc.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2021, 09:35:18 AM »

Assuming this was a valid priest, unless you INTENTIONALLY hid or distorted something, the Confession was valid. Just try to rectify the situation at your next Confession. "Father, during my last Confession, I made a general. I said that .... but what I really meant to get across was .... I didn't misstate this intentionally."

Not a big deal. I've done this regularly, where I forgot something and then added it in the next Confession. Unless you FULLY DELIBERATELY intended to obscure something. Now, that's where the issue of scrupulosity really rears its ugly head. You start to question yourself whether it was "deliberate" where any movement of the mind, any idle thought that pops into your head, gets conflated with an act of the will.

If you're genuinely scrupulous, the advice of my own Confessor at seminary would apply. He instantly cured me of scruples by basically commanding me to not confess anything as mortal sin unless I could basically swear to God that it WAS in fact a mortal sin. I believe the system of "probabilism" serves the scrupulous very well (though it would be a huge mistake to allow the lax to apply it, IMO). St. Alphonsus taught a probabilistic system, but then modified it a little bit later (after taking some criticism) into more of a semi-probabilist opinion. But what's ironic is that probabilism is probable, so it's not generally forbidden to use the system :-)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2021, 10:09:34 AM »

Some general comments:

1) Unlike a particular (ie., regular) confession, it is not necessary to confess all your sins in a general confession, if you have already confessed them before. Some people use a general confession just to confess a handful of their most humiliating or most serious lifetime sins;

2) General confessions and retreats are not for the scrupulous. They are great for normal souls, but for the scrupulous are like picking scabs.

3) “God reads crooked minds straight.” You did your part.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2021, 05:40:18 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on June 21, 2021, 08:21:46 AM

You mentioned your "parish priest" -- if you are attending an Indult or even worse a Novus Ordo parish, you need to read up more on the Crisis in the Church.

With the Crisis in the Church, the state of the Church today, you should ONLY be attending Mass at some kind of "lifeboat" chapel, nothing accepted by Rome. Rome is modernist and could be argued to be schismatic -- they went into schism from the true Faith at Vatican II. It's basically a new religion. You can't have anything to do with that new religion.

The Catholic Faith, practiced by the Saints through the ages up till Vatican 2, and the new Conciliar Religion that was born at Vatican II, are irreconcilable. They blend together, or are compatible with each other, about as well as God and the devil.

Any priests who are "OK" with that new religion are inherently compromised, and will give you horrible advice, tainted sermons, etc.

I guess I misarticulated myself yet again; this is at an SSPX chapel with a regular priest who sometimes is filled in for others when he's not available. I don't attend the Novus Ordo.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2021, 05:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 05:40:18 PM

I guess I misarticulated myself yet again; this is at an SSPX chapel with a regular priest who sometimes is filled in for others when he's not available. I don't attend the Novus Ordo.

And by "regular" I mean that he is the one that is usually there. He was validly ordained traditionally.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2021, 05:53:03 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on June 21, 2021, 09:35:18 AM

Assuming this was a valid priest, unless you INTENTIONALLY hid or distorted something, the Confession was valid. Just try to rectify the situation at your next Confession. "Father, during my last Confession, I made a general. I said that .... but what I really meant to get across was .... I didn't misstate this intentionally."

Not a big deal. I've done this regularly, where I forgot something and then added it in the next Confession. Unless you FULLY DELIBERATELY intended to obscure something. Now, that's where the issue of scrupulosity really rears its ugly head. You start to question yourself whether it was "deliberate" where any movement of the mind, any idle thought that pops into your head, gets conflated with an act of the will.

If you're genuinely scrupulous, the advice of my own Confessor at seminary would apply. He instantly cured me of scruples by basically commanding me to not confess anything as mortal sin unless I could basically swear to God that it WAS in fact a mortal sin. I believe the system of "probabilism" serves the scrupulous very well (though it would be a huge mistake to allow the lax to apply it, IMO). St. Alphonsus taught a probabilistic system, but then modified it a little bit later (after taking some criticism) into more of a semi-probabilist opinion. But what's ironic is that probabilism is probable, so it's not generally forbidden to use the system :-)

I didn't deliberately or intentionally try to distort anything but, as you mentioned, I often do question myself and second-guess if I did. I went in with the full intention of being 100% honest. I would like to rectify the situation by making clarifications during my next confession but, the priest who I made the general confession to and the one whom I usually confessed to have both told me not to focus on past sins because of the scrupulosity. If I were seeing the priest who I made the general confession to again, I'm certain he would be understanding and let me clarify for my peace of mind but, the usual confessor who I will most likely be seeing at my next confession tends to be very strict and, at times, gets irritable when I when I try to confess something that I remember from the past or try to clarify something from my past confession so, even though I would like to, I expect him to get irritated and not allow me to do so.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2021, 06:26:24 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 05:53:03 PM

...the priest who I made the general confession to and the one whom I usually confessed to have both told me not to focus on past sins because of the scrupulosity. If I were seeing the priest who I made the general confession to again, I'm certain he would be understanding and let me clarify for my peace of mind...

The problem with scruples is that it won't give you peace of mind, at least not for long. Trust and OBEY your usual confessor. Don't rehash these things. It is the only way to get over scruples. I know from personal experience.

SimpleMan · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2021, 06:28:23 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on June 21, 2021, 09:35:18 AM

Assuming this was a valid priest, unless you INTENTIONALLY hid or distorted something, the Confession was valid. Just try to rectify the situation at your next Confession. "Father, during my last Confession, I made a general. I said that .... but what I really meant to get across was .... I didn't misstate this intentionally."

Not a big deal. I've done this regularly, where I forgot something and then added it in the next Confession. Unless you FULLY DELIBERATELY intended to obscure something. Now, that's where the issue of scrupulosity really rears its ugly head. You start to question yourself whether it was "deliberate" where any movement of the mind, any idle thought that pops into your head, gets conflated with an act of the will.

If you're genuinely scrupulous, the advice of my own Confessor at seminary would apply. He instantly cured me of scruples by basically commanding me to not confess anything as mortal sin unless I could basically swear to God that it WAS in fact a mortal sin. I believe the system of "probabilism" serves the scrupulous very well (though it would be a huge mistake to allow the lax to apply it, IMO). St. Alphonsus taught a probabilistic system, but then modified it a little bit later (after taking some criticism) into more of a semi-probabilist opinion. But what's ironic is that probabilism is probable, so it's not generally forbidden to use the system :-)

This is absolutely sterling advice.

I can well foresee that scrupulosity could be the "occupational hazard" of trying to live by traditional Catholic moral teachings, especially for young people (and it would usually be young men, due to their powerful urge to violate the Sixth and Ninth Commandments, something that is hard-coded into the human nature of the male uninformed by Divine Grace).

I noted this recently in another thread, but in their misdirected zeal to reclaim and re-appropriate the Catholic Faith whole and entire (as they see it), sometimes "conservative Novus Ordo" people get it wrong and go totally off the deep end. They are the kind who, if you even so much as appear to question anything about Vatican II or the Novus Ordo Mass --- because they've been taught that everything connected to V2/NOM fell straight from heaven by the positive will of the Holy Ghost (they would say "Spirit") --- they will look at you like you've just slapped them. (We call them "Catholic holy rollers" in our home.) One of them recently said online, that any fully deliberate violation of any one of the Ten Commandments is a "grave" sin, therefore mortal if committed with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will. Not that this is ever to be condoned, but such things as small "white" lies, pilfering more condiments from a restaurant bar than you're entitled to, and snippy remarks made to others out of exasperation, simply do not rise to the level of mortal sin. People such as this are headed for an emotional and psychological plane crash, out of drawing false conclusions that they do not have the catechetical training, and possibly not even the intellectual acuмen, to avoid.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2021, 06:31:59 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 05:53:03 PM

the usual confessor who I will most likely be seeing at my next confession tends to be very strict and, at times, gets irritable when I when I try to confess something that I remember from the past or try to clarify something from my past confession so, even though I would like to, I expect him to get irritated and not allow me to do so.

He's being a good Priest. If you listen to him you will remember him fondly for helping you. If you don't listen to him you will drive yourself and everyone else nuts.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2021, 06:48:36 PM »

How about this example. I did a sin of talking negatively about 2 priests, one of whom I made my confession to, I confessed that I had bad mouthed a priest a few times.. Do I need give the details or just saying that is enough.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2021, 08:31:53 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 06:48:36 PM

How about this example. I did a sin of talking negatively about 2 priests, one of whom I made my confession to, I confessed that I had bad mouthed a priest a few times.. Do I need give the details or just saying that is enough.

Sounds plenty good enough. And also a prime example of scrupulosity; you just can't let it go. See above about never having peace of mind.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2021, 09:32:15 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 05:53:03 PM

I didn't deliberately or intentionally try to distort anything but, as you mentioned, I often do question myself and second-guess if I did. I went in with the full intention of being 100% honest. I would like to rectify the situation by making clarifications during my next confession but, the priest who I made the general confession to and the one whom I usually confessed to have both told me not to focus on past sins because of the scrupulosity. If I were seeing the priest who I made the general confession to again, I'm certain he would be understanding and let me clarify for my peace of mind but, the usual confessor who I will most likely be seeing at my next confession tends to be very strict and, at times, gets irritable when I when I try to confess something that I remember from the past or try to clarify something from my past confession so, even though I would like to, I expect him to get irritated and not allow me to do so.

I would listen to your priest then. Obedience to your priest confessor takes precedence over your scruples. He's probably getting irritable with your retracing the past because you do it often as a result of scrupulosity. To help you get past your scrupulosity, you need to let go. God will not blame you for not "clarifying" a sin if you do so on the orders of your Confessor.

"About 5 confessions ago, I said this ... but what I really meant to say was this."

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2021, 09:36:52 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on June 21, 2021, 06:48:36 PM

How about this example. I did a sin of talking negatively about 2 priests, one of whom I made my confession to, I confessed that I had bad mouthed a priest a few times.. Do I need give the details or just saying that is enough.

Nope, that's plenty. Kind of sin and number are all that are required. Unless there are particular circuмstances which change the nature of the sin, they are superfluous.

So, with this example, if your "bad-mouthing" involved calumny or detraction, then that would be detraction and calumny. But if it's something short of that, such as "boy he gives lousy sermons" or "that priest has a bad temper" or "I really don't like him." ... which is typically what is meant by bad-mouthing rather than "this priest is having an affair with a female parishioner".

Author Topic: Confession and scrupulosity (Read 6946 times)

Änσnymσus

Confession and scrupulosity

Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Matthew

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Ladislaus

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Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Änσnymσus

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Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Änσnymσus

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Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

SimpleMan

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Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Änσnymσus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Ladislaus

Re: Confession and scrupulosity

Ladislaus

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