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Author Topic: Chrysostom on finding a wife...  (Read 39391 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Chrysostom on finding a wife...
« Reply #305 on: Today at 03:55:58 AM »
I'd be willing to bet also that a lot of Thucists have never even received a Lefebvre line Sacrament. 
Many of them go straight from the Novus Ordo into the not so warm embrace of CMRI....

Änσnymσus

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Re: Chrysostom on finding a wife...
« Reply #306 on: Today at 03:57:44 AM »
The Church cannot and never judges the internal forum. You have no evidence he withheld intention. I also recall reading that when the declaration was presented to him to sign, he was then unable to read anymore, worn down as he was by old age and his various crosses. The delegates of JPII lied to him about what was written down. There is good reason to believe that something like this happened, the Vatican hated him and his family.
Yes its a massive conspiracy against Thuc. Every one was wrong.
Or maybe he was traditional, but also was mad. And clearly not capable of doing the same job as Archbishop Lefebvre. 
No one is judging the internal forum. But there are lines that cannot be crossed. And he may have crossed them.
We can't verify now because he is dead.
The prudent person sticks with Lefebvre line Sacraments.


Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Chrysostom on finding a wife...
« Reply #307 on: Today at 03:59:21 AM »
I think what Tom was getting at is that he would rather have a priest (albeit schismatic) with Orders he doesn't doubt, as opposed to a Catholic who's Orders he does doubt and has treated as invalid up until that point. That is the difference. I would be interested to see if theologians dealt with that scenario (schismatic priest vs Catholic doubtful priest in danger of death)

The difference is probably more easily shown if it was a schismatic Orthodox priest and a Novus Ordo priest. Many trads hold Novus Ordo Orders to be doubtful, so it would seem to me that an Orthodox priest (if he would even be willing to provide the Sacraments) would be the safer course in danger of death

The answer to your first question is obvious. A Catholic priest. But the problem is a Thuc line priest can't be considered a priest at all. You have to take the safest path when it comes to Sacramental theology. 

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Chrysostom on finding a wife...
« Reply #308 on: Today at 04:01:22 AM »
AFAIK the Church has always held the Orders of the "Orthodox" to be valid as they use proper matter, form, intention. They do not hold heretical beliefs concerning those Sacraments that would cause their intention to differ from that of the Church's. If Tom treats +Thuc line Orders as invalid I think he, if nothing else, would be acting consistently by opting for a schismatic priest in danger of death

I dont treat them as invalid. Learn how to read.
I treat them as POTENTIALLY invalid. Huge difference.
We could have treated them as valid if Thuc was interviewed to some satisfaction. But was not. Therefore the best thing would be to get The resistance Bishops to conditionally ordain and consecrated Thuc line Bishops and priests.

Änσnymσus

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Re: Chrysostom on finding a wife...
« Reply #309 on: Today at 04:02:40 AM »
Glad you asked.

Saint Francis de Sales on mockery, taken from Introduction to the Devout Life.

“One of the worst conditions that a person can be in is to be a scoffer: God hates this vice extremely, and has in the past inflicted strange punishments for it. Nothing is so contrary to charity, and much more to devotion, as contempt and scorn for our neighbour. Now derision and mockery can never be indulged in without this contempt; and therefore it is a very grave sin, so that theologians are right in saying that mockery is the worst sort of offence that we can commit against our neighbour by words, because other offences are committed with some esteem of him who is offended, but this is committed with contempt and scorn.”

Chapter XXVII
Of Propriety in words, and of the Respect Which We Owe to Others


In this case it is scoffing evil. Because it is a grave scandal for anyone to encourage others to go to Thuc line Sacraments.