Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20  (Read 2513 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Anonymous

  • Guest
Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
« on: February 17, 2014, 08:10:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My aunt was concerned about the sermon she was told this Sunday.
    The priest said that Christ says in Matthew 19-20 that we are allowed to divorce if the spouse commits fornication.
    Is this correct?
    I am confused now.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 08:52:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That is how a lot of protestants and even Orthodox understand that text.  The Catholic Church has always taught that there can me no divorce and remarriage after a valid marriage as long as both parties are alive.  


    Offline Sigismund

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5361
    • Reputation: +3096/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 08:53:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The above post was from Sigismund.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4414
    • Reputation: +3796/-230
    • Gender: Male
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 09:21:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I presume you mean this verse in the Gospel according to St. Matthew:

    19:9. And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except
    it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:
    and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

    The note clarifies this:

    Except it be, etc. . .In the case of fornication, that is, of adultery,
    the wife may be put away:  but even then the husband cannot marry
    another as long as the wife is living.

    This priest was irresponsible in making such a statement in a sermon.  It may be allowable in very narrow circumstances for a man to divorce his wife, but neither party may re-marry while the spouse lives.  Normally, in today's culture, when someone says that divorce is allowable, the implication that is generally understood is an unsaid, "with the right to remarry."

    I cannot imagine why this issue would be taught in a Sunday sermon for this is something that a priest should only discuss with an individual or an individual couple so that very specific circumstances may be discussed.  There is no absolute and clear-cut rule that can necessarily be applied in all cases, which makes it inappropriate for a Sunday sermon.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 09:52:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: TKGS
    I presume you mean this verse in the Gospel according to St. Matthew:

    19:9. And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except
    it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:
    and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

    The note clarifies this:

    Except it be, etc. . .In the case of fornication, that is, of adultery,
    the wife may be put away:  but even then the husband cannot marry
    another as long as the wife is living.

    This priest was irresponsible in making such a statement in a sermon.  It may be allowable in very narrow circumstances for a man to divorce his wife, but neither party may re-marry while the spouse lives.  Normally, in today's culture, when someone says that divorce is allowable, the implication that is generally understood is an unsaid, "with the right to remarry."

    I cannot imagine why this issue would be taught in a Sunday sermon for this is something that a priest should only discuss with an individual or an individual couple so that very specific circumstances may be discussed.  There is no absolute and clear-cut rule that can necessarily be applied in all cases, which makes it inappropriate for a Sunday sermon.


    Yes, if one reads it "as written," one gets it wrong.  :fryingpan:

    That priest isn't trained to know the Church's own teaching on separation, civil divorce and the inability to remarry before the marriage bond is broken by death of one spouse. He may have mentioned it to try to sooth the minds of some of his parishioners who have accepted a phony Novus Ordo annulment.


    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 09:56:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • From the OP'er ~ this was said by an SSPX priest who had as his server at Mass a NO deacon from the nearby Indult parish.

    Why would he say that?
    I do not wish to make rash judgement but this priest was a seminary teacher for a long time.
    Shouldn't he know any better?
    Is this what they teach at their seminaries?

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 21832
    • Reputation: +19175/-111
    • Gender: Male
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 09:57:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If one's spouse commits adultery, the victim spouse has two choices

    A) forgive
    B) do not forgive, and separate

    If the victim spouse is going to go with Plan B, it must be done right away. You can't act like you've forgiven him/her, and then next week decide to not forgive.

    But regardless of choosing A) or B) both spouses are stuck with each other for life -- even if they choose to separate.

    You should ask a priest for specifics.

    I do know that "adultery" is one of the few reasons a spouse can refuse the marriage debt -- and in the case of adultery, it can be indefinite.

    I think it's very wise for the Church to make this allowance for human nature. For one thing, it will make that wandering spouse stop and think. Who knows, maybe he'll start thinking with the head on top of his shoulders, at least enough to hold him back.

    Adultery is really stupid to begin with -- risking a stable relationship you've established, a family you've started, the lives of your children -- and for what? Usually marrying that new person isn't an option (past, present or future).

    Especially for a Catholic, whose church forbids re-marriage while a spouse is still living. And if you kill your spouse, that's an impediment for a future marriage -- one that can't be given a dispensation by the Church.

    And the "experience" can't vary that much... Once I was on a non-Catholic website where a bunch of guys were talking about marriage and infidelity, and several guys pointed this out. They may have been non-Catholic, but they have a point.

    Going through a family break-up, divorce proceedings, living alone, etc. because you wanted to drink a glass of water from your neighbor's kitchen sink instead of your own? How stupid is that? It's water, darn it.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 10:04:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • She clearly remembers him saying divorce is allowed in the case of fornication.
    But will not allow to remarry because that would be adultery.
    Why the distinction?
    Why not just say divorce is allowed in cases of adultery, why specify and distinguish the two?
    My understanding is divorce is absolutely NOT allowed under ANY circumstance.
    I am flabbergasted!
    Could this possibly be a "concession"?
    Something the NO guest deacon was supposed to hear?
     :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 11:07:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Even if divorce occurs, if the marriage is valid a so-called second marriage means adultery regardless.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 11:30:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    My aunt was concerned about the sermon she was told this Sunday.
    The priest said that Christ says in Matthew 19-20 that we are allowed to divorce if the spouse commits fornication.
    Is this correct?
    I am confused now.

    No, that was in reference to people who were living in sin. A person who is not married who has relations with someone who is not married is commiting fornication. In those instances if there is a seperation, the parties are free to marriy shoever they want to who is free to marry.  

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 01:05:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Single people fornicate.  Married people commit adultery.

    I believe this is the annulment clause.  If spouses are fornicating then it is not a valid sacramental marriage.


    Offline Tiffany

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3111
    • Reputation: +1639/-9
    • Gender: Female
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 02:30:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    She clearly remembers him saying divorce is allowed in the case of fornication.
    But will not allow to remarry because that would be adultery.
    Why the distinction?
    Why not just say divorce is allowed in cases of adultery, why specify and distinguish the two?
    My understanding is divorce is absolutely NOT allowed under ANY circumstance.
    I am flabbergasted!
    Could this possibly be a "concession"?
    Something the NO guest deacon was supposed to hear?
     :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


    Civil divorce is not recognize by the Church as an end to the marriage in the eyes of Church and God. The couple is still married.

    In the USA if a spouse wants to separate it's often necessary to seek a civil divorce due to legal rights to protect finances or children. It doesn't leave either spouse free to marry a different person though.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 04:51:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Single people fornicate.  Married people commit adultery.

    I believe this is the annulment clause.  If spouses are fornicating then it is not a valid sacramental marriage.


    If one or both of the spouses were fornicating with others at the time of the marriage then it can be evidence of a non-sacramental union because it shows that they never intended to have unity within the marriage alone.

    Offline Tiffany

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3111
    • Reputation: +1639/-9
    • Gender: Female
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 04:55:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Single people fornicate.  Married people commit adultery.

    I believe this is the annulment clause.  If spouses are fornicating then it is not a valid sacramental marriage.


    If one or both of the spouses were fornicating with others at the time of the marriage then it can be evidence of a non-sacramental union because it shows that they never intended to have unity within the marriage alone.


    Would you share where this info came from? I've not heard of fornication making a marriage invalid.

    Anonymous

    • Guest
    Christ said we are allowed to Divorce? Matt 19-20
    « Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 05:10:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Guest
    Single people fornicate.  Married people commit adultery.

    I believe this is the annulment clause.  If spouses are fornicating then it is not a valid sacramental marriage.


    If one or both of the spouses were fornicating with others at the time of the marriage then it can be evidence of a non-sacramental union because it shows that they never intended to have unity within the marriage alone.


    Would you share where this info came from? I've not heard of fornication making a marriage invalid.


    Code of Canon Law:

    Can. 1101 §1 The internal consent of the mind is presumed to conform to the words or the signs used in the celebration of a marriage.

    §2 If, however, either or both of the parties should by a positive act of will exclude marriage itself or any essential element of marriage or any essential property, such party contracts invalidly.

    Can.  1056 The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility, which in Christian marriage obtain a special firmness by reason of the sacrament.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16