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Author Topic: Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?  (Read 1171 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
« on: March 11, 2014, 03:04:57 PM »
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  • The penance I usually do cannot be done currently for health reasons. Simple question: Do I have  a right to avoid penance if it would cause damage? Should not penance be done whether one will be damaged by it or not, since extra suffering is a fruit of penance?


    Offline Man of the West

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 03:10:30 PM »
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  • Try to accept your current illness as your penance, since this is what God has permitted to befall you it is most acceptable to Him. Substitute some extra time in prayer. Remember, God wants mortification primarily of the heart.
    Confronting modernity from the depths of the human spirit, in communion with Christ the King.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 03:27:49 PM »
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  • You don't have a "right" to avoid penance, but the Church's normal laws re: mortification (fast, abstinence, ember days, etc.) simply do not apply in cases where they are legitimately harmful to your health.  It doesn't really have anything to do with rights.

    Of course, finding other ways to suffer is tremendously laudable.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Änσnymσus

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 04:19:38 PM »
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  • .......................

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #4 on: March 11, 2014, 04:22:11 PM »
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  • .

    There are innumerable ways to offer penance, voluntary expiation, acts of atonement, sacrifices, spiritual works of mercy, self-denial.  

    If you are unable to do one or more of them, there are plenty more available to you, as well as the sacrifice of being unable to do one or more of them, when you would like to be able to do them.  

    The Fatima children are good examples of this.  After they learned how precious to God are these little offerings of children, they used to go about their days LOOKING for more ways of doing penance.  

    They came up with some doozies.  One was tying a coarse rope around their waist which would irritate them and even would cut into their skin, causing bleeding.  When their mothers found curious bloodstains on their bedding, investigations followed.  The children got in trouble for this, and then they offered up to God the penance of obeying their parents by not tying themselves up with a rope out of obedience, when they really wanted to use the ropes.

    They would give their lunches away to "poor children" (by our standards, the 3 seers were pretty "poor" themselves!) and went hungry, offering that as a sacrifice.  When they got unbearably thirsty, Francisco and Jacinta would seek out muddy puddles along the sides of the road where they would drink.  One might wonder if this practice had anything to do with their early deaths.  But nonetheless, their intention was pure, and God was pleased by their sufferings.

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    Offline poche

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 12:34:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    The penance I usually do cannot be done currently for health reasons. Simple question: Do I have  a right to avoid penance if it would cause damage? Should not penance be done whether one will be damaged by it or not, since extra suffering is a fruit of penance?

    Why not offer a substitution?

    Offline Frances

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 01:03:32 PM »
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  •  :dancing-banana:
    Why is this such an issue?  If you have a good priest, ask his advice and go with it.  (One situation where it IS right to "just obey.") If you haven't access to a good priest, substitute another penance and offer it along with your disappointment in being unable to do the other!
    Case in point!  A 14 year old girl at school has been diagnosed with Type I diabetes.  She can't fast, period.  (Unless she wants to risk a diabetic coma and death!)   Offer up your health condition because it may gain more graces for you than whatever you'd done previously!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Änσnymσus

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 02:04:34 PM »
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  • St Thomas Aquinas - Summa Theologica


    Whether the sorrow of contrition can be too great?


      Objection 1: It would seem that the sorrow of contrition cannot be too great. For no sorrow can be more immoderate than that which destroys its own subject. But the sorrow of contrition, if it be so great as to cause death or corruption of the body, is praiseworthy. For Anselm says (Orat. lii): "Would that such were the exuberance of my inmost soul, as to dry up the marrow of my body"; and Augustine [*De Contritione Cordis, work of an unknown author] confesses that "he deserves to blind his eyes with tears." Therefore the sorrow of contrition cannot be too great.

      Objection 2: Further, the sorrow of contrition results from the love of charity. But the love of charity cannot be too great. Neither, therefore, can the sorrow of contrition be too great.

      Objection 3: On the contrary, Every moral virtue is destroyed by excess and deficiency. But contrition is an act of a moral virtue, viz. penance, since it is a part of justice. Therefore sorrow for sins can be too great.

      I answer that, Contrition, as regards the sorrow in the reason, i.e. the displeasure, whereby the sin is displeasing through being an offense against God, cannot be too great; even as neither can the love of charity be too great, for when this is increased the aforesaid displeasure is increased also. But, as regards the sensible sorrow, contrition may be too great, even as outward affliction of the body may be too great. In all these things the rule should be the safeguarding of the subject, and of that general well-being which suffices for the fulfillment of one's duties; hence it is written (Rm. 12:1): "Let your sacrifice be reasonable [*Vulg.: 'Present your bodies . . . a reasonable sacrifice']."

      Reply to Objection 1: Anselm desired the marrow of his body to be dried up by the exuberance of his devotion, not as regards the natural humor, but as to his bodily desires and concupiscences. And, although Augustine acknowledged that he deserved to lose the use of his bodily eyes on account of his sins, because every sinner deserves not only eternal, but also temporal death, yet he did not wish his eyes to be blinded.

      Reply to Objection 2: This objection considers the sorrow which is in the reason: while the Third considers the sorrow of the sensitive part.


    Änσnymσus

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #8 on: March 12, 2014, 04:16:42 PM »
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  • This isn't easy to discern, in my experience.  And good priests are not available to many of us.  So, I sympathize.  Sometimes God sends us the trial of not being sure if we're doing the best thing.

    If the penance makes it impossible to do your duty of state, that would seem to me to be excessive.  

    Offline Cantarella

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 04:25:26 PM »
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  • I read this recently:

    What makes for a good form of mortification? You want to subdue the body, but you don't want to violate the dignity of the body. Anything that mutilates the body or causes serious or lasting harm is contrary to the Christian spirit of mortification, and contrary to the Christian vision of human dignity.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Änσnymσus

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #10 on: March 13, 2014, 12:02:10 AM »
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  • Sometimes fasting makes me very nauseated especially combined with abstinence because I don't tolerate carbohydrate foods well.  I'm not diabetic but a priest told me to not fast so much that I'm nauseated.


    Offline MariaCatherine

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #11 on: March 13, 2014, 07:10:20 AM »
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  • I think another aspect to this that makes it a bit difficult to know what's best is that a charitable priest or friend might discourage us from going too far, and they might be right to do so, but at the same time, we have countless examples of saints who seem to have sacrificed their health and their physical integrity.  My way of discerning for myself what's best is to focus on making little changes that I know I'll be able to keep up, and trying to do a little better every day, or week, or penitential season.
    What return shall I make to the Lord for all the things that He hath given unto me?

    Änσnymσus

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    Cant do mortification for health reasons... am I excused?
    « Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 08:53:07 AM »
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  • A charitable priest would govern you within the laws of the Church. If a priest tells you to do something that you would not feel would be as heroic of a sacrifice, you should immediately cast this out as a temptation, and always remember the obedience is far greater than sacrifice.

    Normally when one has a doubt, they will ask a prudent priest and take his advice. The only concern would be whether you ask a priest with sound theology.