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Author Topic: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics  (Read 1881 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
« on: August 14, 2018, 09:29:16 PM »
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  • I was raised catholic, attended religious education, was confirmed, and then the priest molestation story broke and I no longer had faith in the church as a whole. I love Jesus and live to obey his teachings and be kind to all. I really want my children to be baptized, but I can't find a priest anywhere who will do it if we are not active members of a church. I also do not have 2 godparents that are practicing Catholics. I don't want to return to the church on a regular basis. Any help? 


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 10:42:45 PM »
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  • If you have no intention of practicing the Catholic religion and do not intend to raise your children as practicing Catholics, they are better off not being baptized.  Catholic baptism places the responsibility of practicing the Catholic Faith upon the one who is baptized.  If you and your spouse do not practice the Catholic religion, your children will not, either, yet God will hold you and them (when of age) accountable.  


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #2 on: August 15, 2018, 03:25:20 AM »
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  • It is important that the children get baptized immediately.  

    You need to find a parish.  Go to Mass then go home and not get caught up in drama.    Get the Baltimore Catechism so you can teach the children most of their faith at home.  

    Children need to get baptized ASAP!



    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #3 on: August 15, 2018, 08:27:11 AM »
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  • The molestation and cover up is still going on today...And you all say I will be judged because I dont want to attend mass regularly? 

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #4 on: August 15, 2018, 10:48:05 AM »
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  • Your reaction of rejecting the Church due to the actions of specific individuals is emotional and makes no rational sense.  So you'll refuse to have your children put into a state of grace out of spite.  You'll punish your children by denying them Baptism on account of these perverts?  There are sinners EVERYWHERE this side of heaven.  That's akin to saying that you will let your children starve rather than go to a grocery store because the store's manager was convicted of sins/crimes against children.  As a parent, take the precautions you need to in order to protect your children.  Anybody anywhere could be a child molester.  Will you not even go out in public anymore?

    ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs try to infiltrate many types of organizations, and they go after churches in particular because clerics have access to children and can duck for cover behind the trappings of religion.  And certain bishops, likely ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs themselves who were part of the network, tried to hide and cover some of these things up.  But never has the Church had an official position condoning such behavior.  At the same time, many of the allegations were in fact false, coming from people looking for a payout.  Statistics actually show that the incidents of pedophilia were slightly higher in other religious organizations (Jєωs, Orthodox, etc.) ... it's just that the Catholic Church got all the bad press because there are many people out there hostile to the Church and will take every chance to smear it.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #5 on: August 15, 2018, 10:53:12 AM »
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  • I was raised catholic, attended religious education, was confirmed, and then the priest molestation story broke and I no longer had faith in the church as a whole. I love Jesus and live to obey his teachings and be kind to all. I really want my children to be baptized, but I can't find a priest anywhere who will do it if we are not active members of a church. I also do not have 2 godparents that are practicing Catholics. I don't want to return to the church on a regular basis. Any help?

    You have to honestly examine your conscience and ask yourself whether you're not just using the molestation scandal as an EXCUSE not to be a practicing Catholic, and that you don't in fact have ulterior motives.  Your line:  "I don't want to return to the church on a regular basis." might be a clue.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #6 on: August 15, 2018, 11:02:59 AM »
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  • Quote
    If you have no intention of practicing the Catholic religion and do not intend to raise your children as practicing Catholics, they are better off not being baptized.  Catholic baptism places the responsibility of practicing the Catholic Faith upon the one who is baptized.  If you and your spouse do not practice the Catholic religion, your children will not, either, yet God will hold you and them (when of age) accountable.  
    Agree.  This is why you can't find a priest to baptize your children - because the Church tells priests not to baptize children who won't be brought up Catholic.
    You need to make a decision on living as a Catholic or not.  Only if you decide to live like a catholic can your children be baptized.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #7 on: August 15, 2018, 11:27:32 AM »
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  • The molestation and cover up is still going on today...And you all say I will be judged because I dont want to attend mass regularly?
    There are some priests who did these horrible things, it's true. But there are still many good priests who have been tarred with that same brush undeservedly. The actions of those bad priests do not relieve you of the responsibility to practice the Faith devoutly and to raise your children in the Catholic faith properly. Lots of doctors, teachers, police etc have been arrested for heinous acts against children in their charge; does that stop you from obtaining the services of their colleagues? If you don't believe in the Catholic faith enough to attend Mass, then you must just want trappings of Baptism, Confirmation, etc for the fancy celebrations and photo ops they will provide. Raise your children in the Church, and keep a watchful eye on everyone they come in contact with-
    including priests.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 02:11:05 PM »
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  • Can.  867 §1. Parents are obliged to take care that infants are baptized in the first few weeks; as soon as possible after the birth or even before it, they are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be prepared properly for it.
    How is a child baptized BEFORE birth???
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #9 on: August 16, 2018, 02:26:08 PM »
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  • The molestation and cover up is still going on today...And you all say I will be judged because I dont want to attend mass regularly?

    Lines like this are invariably signs of a bad conscience.  This person left the Church for other motives and is using the pervert scandal as rationalization for the bad conscience.  Especially the little tidbit about not wanting to attend Mass "regularly".  If it were a position of principle, the person would refuse to attend Mass EVER, not just "regularly".  You've outed yourself.  Hopefully you can see yourself clearly before you die and are judged for having left the Church.

    Now, the tendency is for everyone to pussyfoot around these snowflakes who claim to be scandalized but are really using that as an excuse to do what they want.  They readily pounce on things like this to justify their bad consciences in their own minds ... but it doesn't work.  I think that the firm response is what's called for, not the snow-flake-appeasement angle.

    So, to answer your question, yes, you will be judged.  Just as the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ perverts will be judged for their crimes, so you will be judged for having left the Church founded by Jesus Christ.  God will not judge you for their crimes, but He will not let you off the hook on account of their crimes either.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 07:57:34 AM »
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  • Of course ideally, a practicing Catholic family would have their child baptized and raised Catholic. I get it But just allowing for the sake of the child, would this be true?

    Whether raised Catholic or not, would a baptized child who died before the age of reason go to Heaven-? I think the answer is yes. Is the best a non-baptized child would attain, possibly Limbo?

    And even after the age of reason, is an un-Churched baptized child who dies more likely to go to hell than a non-baptized one? Is there any Grace of the Sacrament solely afforded to a baptized child/person not raised in the Faith? If there were Grace imparted, (which there must be, because Baptism is one of the Sacraments that can't be repeated, only conditionally) would it be beneficial or more likely to convert the person later in life? Is Baptism a "Good" in itself, or subject to conditions that render it dangerous at some point?

    I always felt that this "holding back" of baptism became more pronounced after Vatican ll - it seems that the baptism of children under most circuмstances was done prior to the Novus Ordo. They refrain from Baptism, which is mandatory for salvation but give out other Sacraments like potato chips ,even to non-Catholics.

    So really, the question is, is baptism ever detrimental to the soul of a child?
    Personally for the sake of the child's eternal salvation, at least until the age of reason, I would vote for baptism under any condition. As a nurse I have baptized a few children who were unto death. I didn't ask what religion they were.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #11 on: August 17, 2018, 08:04:08 AM »
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  • That is, baptized newborn infant's unto death- ( not 'children")- correction of last sentence above

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 08:55:43 AM »
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  • Of course ideally, a practicing Catholic family would have their child baptized and raised Catholic. I get it But just allowing for the sake of the child, would this be true?

    This has always been the teaching and the practice of the Church, that baptism cannot be conferred on a child who has little hope of being raised ... any more than the Church would confer the Sacrament on an adult who did not want to receive it.

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 09:43:06 AM »
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  • Why would canon law prohibit the baptism of an infant that will not be raised Catholic?  Give the kid a chance at least...

    Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jєωs and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pours out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remains within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

    The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally. "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."

    The Church didn't say there was a limbo, happy place, almost heaven for unbaptized. The Catholic Church was established by Christ to give grace. One can only receive His grace if they have been baptized.  So where is the harm in baptizing an infant.  If they die in sin they go to the same hell as baptized Catholics.  If they died without baptism they would "go down straightaway to hell to be punished." 
     

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Baptism for children of non-practicing catholics
    « Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 10:07:39 AM »
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  • This has always been the teaching and the practice of the Church, that baptism cannot be conferred on a child who has little hope of being raised ... any more than the Church would confer the Sacrament on an adult who did not want to receive it.
    i forgot not to click the non- anonymous button.
    I can't challenge your statement because I don't have the information to back it up- but I do know that those same non-practicing Catholics can walk down the street and get an Episcopalian or Lutheran  infant baptism, and the Church will recognize it as a legitimate Catholic baptism. So who is really left in the lurch? It's really the poor unchurched child that follows the proscriptions of the NO and can't enter heaven if they die before the age of reason.
     I think the whole matter goes back to being "valid" or licit. Baptism confers Grace and removes original sin