Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on April 18, 2017, 12:53:10 AM
-
1 / 3
Social worker Claudia Rocha is one of a number of women to lead services in churches in Portugal because of a shortage of Catholic priests
Social worker Claudia Rocha is one of a number of women to lead services in churches in Portugal because of a shortage of Catholic priests (AFP Photo/PATRICIA DE MELO MOREIRA)
Less
Reguengos de Monsaraz (Portugal) (AFP) - Facing a shortage of Roman Catholic priests, women churchgoers have stepped in to lead Sunday services in villages in southeastern Portugal, a sign the ageing communities are open to change.
In the tiny church of Carrapatelo, a village overlooking the vineyards of the Reguengos de Monsaraz region, Claudia Rocha stands before a dozen mostly elderly female churchgoers wearing a black dress and sneakers.
Her leather jacket and smartphone sit on the front-row bench as the 31-year-old leads what the church terms "Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest" with ease.
After prayers and church hymns, she makes comments on the day's biblical reading, a form of preaching.
At the end, Rocha hands out communion wafers representing the body of Christ that were blessed by the priest beforehand, but wine is not part of the ceremony.
"This church would be closed if I wasn't here. Who cares if I am a woman, a deacon or a priest? What matters is having someone from the community who maintains our connection with the priest, even when he isn't here," she tells AFP.
- No misgivings -
A divorced social worker without children, she is one of 16 laypeople -- eight men and eight women -- chosen by Father Manuel Jose Marques to help ensure regular attendance at the seven parishes he presides over.
"It might seem strange and new, but we haven't invented anything here. It's a tool that has long been set out in the Church's guidelines, for cases when it's absolutely necessary," says the 57-year-old priest.
The practice of Sunday services being led by laypeople in a priest's absence take place in a number of countries, including Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal, Switzerland and the US.
It began in the 1980s, when services were prepared with a priest or ordained clergy member, resembling mass but without the rite of consecrating bread for communion or the Eucharistic prayer.
The Vatican and many clergy members have refused to encourage the practice, fearing a trivialisation of the tradition of Mass.
Father Manuel had no such misgivings.
To him, the need to set up Sunday services without a priest became apparent as soon as he took on his seven parishes around 16 years ago.
Before, there had been three priests for the seven parishes in Reguengos de Monsaraz, a town in the region of Alentejo between Evora and the Spanish border.
He assembled a group of 16 volunteers aged between 24 and 65 from varied backgrounds.
"These are people who have experience with faith and welcoming Christ, and who know how to talk about it," he says, noting he makes no distinction between men and women.
Lay women step in, too, in other rural parts of Portugal, whose population of 10 million is overwhelmingly Catholic but only counts around 3,500 priests for 4,400 congregations.
- 'Very sensitive subject' -
Last August, Pope Francis set up a group to study the role of women deacons in the early days of Christianity.
While he ruled out the possibility of ordaining female priests, the move was considered a potentially historic opening towards a place for women in the Church.
"It is a very sensitive subject, but what we have done is very simple. In this tiny village, we are quite a bit ahead of the Vatican," says Rocha.
The progressive Father Manuel says he believes "women would be very good priests and deacons" but is quick to add: "It's not the opinion of one priest, or even 10 that makes theology."
"We are living in the heart of an open community, the difference between men and women is no longer as strong as it was in the past," says Dora Cruz, who teaches catechism in Campinho, a village of 700 people.
"But women's equality doesn't necessarily come from priesthood," adds the 31-year-old mother and kindergarten teacher.
Members of the congregation approve of having a woman behind the altar.
"People found it strange at first -- a woman leading Mass? But now we're used to it," says Angelica Vital, a 78-year-old pensioner.
"If we're short of priests, I think they should be allowed to marry -- they are men, like any other!" she adds, with a devilish grin.
-
The last time when Pope Francis was asked the question about the possibility of women priests the answer was a very quick "no!"
-
The Church has declared, ex cathedra, that women will never be ordained as priests. The moral of the story is: The Holy Spirit is not a feminist (which is hardly surprising, since feminism is demonic!).
-
A divorced social worker without children, she is one of 16 laypeople -- eight men and eight women -- chosen by Father Manuel Jose Marques
Why am I not surprised...
-Matthew
-
Priestesses are indeed the future in the Conciliar sect:
https://novusordowatch.org/2018/02/women-priests-concelebrate-novus-ordo-bishops-mass/
-
Why am I not surprised...
-Matthew
Took the words right off my fingertips.
-
Priestesses are indeed the future in the Conciliar sect:
https://novusordowatch.org/2018/02/women-priests-concelebrate-novus-ordo-bishops-mass/
Most "priests" in Brazil are already women, lovers of men, so why not just go all the way and let real women do it.
-
I follow what happens in the Vatican II church, the Novus Ordo religion, like I watch any other false religion, I don't. It's another religion. The crazier they get the better for those of good will who are still caught in the lie.
-
You'd all better hope I don't hear your confession! I just LOVE to gossip. :jester:
-
Priestesses are indeed the future in the Conciliar sect:
https://novusordowatch.org/2018/02/women-priests-concelebrate-novus-ordo-bishops-mass/
Yes, that sounds right ... closely followed by queer marriage.
-
Women priestesses is here in USA handing out communion. Now more than ever there are baby boomer adult women altar servers while baby boomer men sit in pews. And their children and grand children are absent.
-
Priestesses are indeed the future in the Conciliar sect:
https://novusordowatch.org/2018/02/women-priests-concelebrate-novus-ordo-bishops-mass/
Not according to Pope Francis.
-
Women priestesses is here in USA handing out communion. Now more than ever there are baby boomer adult women altar servers while baby boomer men sit in pews. And their children and grand children are absent.
That woman 'priestess' is not a validly ordained anything.
-
Most "priests" in Brazil are already women, lovers of men, so why not just go all the way and let real women do it.
My parish priest is as camp as a row of tents. I ran into him one day in a shop and he was wearing two ear-rings - one in his ear-lobe and one half-way up the same ear. It sickened me. One Sunday morning he (or someone with his permission) displayed a large photo of Conchita (that disgusting "bearded-lady" freak who won the Eurovision Song Contest) on the main table at the Church entrance - which I immediately grabbed, tore up and threw in the bin. In his first week here he defended the parish's top layman, who regularly marches in Sydney's gαy Mardi Gras in support of his queer son. Welcome to the Great Apostasy!
-
My parish priest is as camp as a row of tents. I ran into him one day in a shop and he was wearing two ear-rings - one in his ear-lobe and one half-way up the same ear. It sickened me. One Sunday morning he (or someone with his permission) displayed a large photo of Conchita (that disgusting "bearded-lady" freak who won the Eurovision Song Contest) on the main table at the Church entrance - which I immediately grabbed, tore up and threw in the bin. In his first week here he defended the parish's top layman, who regularly marches in Sydney's gαy Mardi Gras in support of his queer son. Welcome to the Great Apostasy!
You really need to leave the Novus Ordo behind you, regardless of the existence (or non-existence) of Trad Mass options. You are better off staying at home on Sunday than putting your Faith at risk by attending a Novus Ordo.
-
You really need to leave the Novus Ordo behind you, regardless of the existence (or non-existence) of Trad Mass options. You are better off staying at home on Sunday than putting your Faith at risk by attending a Novus Ordo.
Stay at home instead of going to Mass? This sounds like the sort of insane "advice" Satan would come up with! The Novus Ordo Mass is my only option. The nearest Latin Mass would be hundreds of miles away.
-
Stay at home instead of going to Mass? This sounds like the sort of insane "advice" Satan would come up with! The Novus Ordo Mass is my only option. The nearest Latin Mass would be hundreds of miles away.
Both Bishop Williamson and Fr. Pfeiffer have said that it is ok to go to the Novus Ordo.
-
My parish priest is as camp as a row of tents. I ran into him one day in a shop and he was wearing two ear-rings - one in his ear-lobe and one half-way up the same ear. It sickened me. One Sunday morning he (or someone with his permission) displayed a large photo of Conchita (that disgusting "bearded-lady" freak who won the Eurovision Song Contest) on the main table at the Church entrance - which I immediately grabbed, tore up and threw in the bin. In his first week here he defended the parish's top layman, who regularly marches in Sydney's gαy Mardi Gras in support of his queer son. Welcome to the Great Apostasy!
Wait, are men with earrings usually ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ?
-
Enjoyed watching a video where a Russian orthodox priest was married with huge family. They had their own TV stations which they called out ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as perverts and sodomites.
Our Church has betrayed us. Here in USA the World meeting of families was filled with sodomite agenda. They even used a route so people were forced to walk down gαy neighborhood with. Rainbow crosswalks near aids testing clinics. Gross.
Now the same thing is happening in Ireland. Pope Francis says and does thing that are confusing and compromises the Catholic faith. After promoting and selecting ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ clergy to fill high places, proves that Pope Francis condones sin. He showed no mercy and compassion when President Trump ran for Presidency. He interfered and judged.
Yes, I noticed that the artwork for year of mercy is gαy. Divorce, gαy marriage, contraceptives, abortion is the norm within the Church. Sex to Ed was in Catholic schools since 1970's while it didn't hit public schools in our area until the 80's.
-
Forgot to mention. Publicity stunts by Pope Francis in DC visit when he met up with homo former student and homo fiancé. Then in New York famous gαy up on altar doing reading. In Philly the Catholic mayor made ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ speech. And there was scandal that gαy activists were part of the committee. New York, DC and Philadelphia are sodomite friendly capitals of the world with sodomite friendly parishes. The UN is sodomite organization too.
These sodomites are pushing for gαy marriage and working against God and His people. That is why the Pope will be at world meeting of families in the land of fairies.
-
Lesbian religious sisters are serving as associate ministers. Women are giving out the cookie and with lack of holiness.
-
Our Church has betrayed us.
No, it is impossible for the Body of Christ to betray us. The counterfeit Vatican II church has betrayed you.
-
Wait, are men with earrings usually ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ?
No idea, but I didn't say they were. My point is, it's inappropriate for a 55 year-old parish priest to wear any kind of earring, let alone the pagan-type, half-way up the ear.
-
Forgot to mention. Publicity stunts by Pope Francis in DC visit when he met up with homo former student and homo fiancé. Then in New York famous gαy up on altar doing reading
This amounts to tacit approval and sends the wrong message to the faithful and to the world.
-
Enjoyed watching a video where a Russian orthodox priest was married with huge family. They had their own TV stations which they called out ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as perverts and sodomites.
I've also heard Russian Orthodox priests correctly referring to certain radical feminists are "witches". So our very sick Church could learn a thing or two from the Orthodox. It is both fascinating and disturbing that so many Catholics support anti-life agendas: ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and feminism.
-
Stay at home instead of going to Mass? This sounds like the sort of insane "advice" Satan would come up with! The Novus Ordo Mass is my only option. The nearest Latin Mass would be hundreds of miles away.
Anthony, have you seriously studied the changes that were made to the true Mass, and their implications?
.
Satan was at work when the Novus Ordo Missae was introduced to the faithful.
.
Your nearest Latin Mass is about 2 hours away, but I wouldn't recommend it because it is the indult and the ordination of the priest would be suspect. The closest Tridentine Mass is SSPX in Singleton which is 2 hrs 20 mins or 215 kms. Neither of us is in a happy situation.
-
Anthony, have you seriously studied the changes that were made to the true Mass, and their implications?
.
Satan was at work when the Novus Ordo Missae was introduced to the faithful.
I wouldn't doubt it. But a mangled Mass is better than no Mass at all. And as far as I know, Transubstantiation still takes place. I'm aware that ecuмenism resulted in the removal of the Tabernacle from near the altar and the removal of statues, etc to make the Church look more appealing to Protestants (as idiotic as that idea is). A lot of parishes got rid of the altar bells too. Bizarre. It makes me wonder whose side the Vat2-Church is on.
.
Your nearest Latin Mass is about 2 hours away, but I wouldn't recommend it because it is the indult and the ordination of the priest would be suspect. The closest Tridentine Mass is SSPX in Singleton which is 2 hrs 20 mins or 215 kms. Neither of us is in a happy situation.
Thanks for that, but I don't have a car and there are other complications.
-
I wouldn't doubt it. But a mangled Mass is better than no Mass at all. And as far as I know, Transubstantiation still takes place. I'm aware that ecuмenism resulted in the removal of the Tabernacle from near the altar and the removal of statues, etc to make the Church look more appealing to Protestants (as idiotic as that idea is). A lot of parishes got rid of the altar bells too. Bizarre. It makes me wonder whose side the Vat2-Church is on.
.Thanks for that, but I don't have a car and there are other complications.
The Novus Ordo is an illicit mass even if it is a valid consecration of the Blessed Sacrament.
If Transubstantiation takes place, then a horrible sacrilege ensues.
If the sacrament is not effected, then it is still a horrible mockery of the unbloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Either case is a danger to one's faith, and your faith is a prerequisite of your salvation. We are under an obligation to sanctify the Lord's day but doing something harmful to our faith is against the virtue of Religion and therefore obedience to the Sunday precept is mitigated according to our circuмstances. Pray long and hard and do penance for faith and courage. When a prayer for faith is answered, we certainly need courage to follow it.
Go bless,
JoeZ
-
The Novus Ordo is an illicit mass even if it is a valid consecration of the Blessed Sacrament.
If Transubstantiation takes place, then a horrible sacrilege ensues.
If the sacrament is not effected, then it is still a horrible mockery of the unbloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Perhaps I am revealing my ignorance here, but can you explain why it is a "horrible mockery ... " please?
-
If I may,
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the most formal event you will ever attend. It is the unbloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross which was the single most important event in human history. The new mass is not reverent and the crowd there are not reverent, irreverence is mocking.
The Blessed Sacrament is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the reception of which is necessary for our salvation. The lay are forbidden to touch what's consecrated, to do so is sacrilege. This is horrible.
After the words of consecration the new priest elevates the host and then genuflects, its as if he needs the congregation to view or accent to the host before it is worthy of his genuflection. This is a mockery of the priesthood.
The mysterium fidei is removed from the consecration and then new priest solicits a response from the congregation to proclaim the mystery of faith who immediately respond with a denial of the Real Presence. Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again (Didn't He just come or isn't He there?), or when we eat this bread and drink this cup we proclaim Your death until you come in glory (referring to the consecrated host as bread and reducing Holy Communion to a proclamation of death until the second coming of Christ) Maybe I shouldn't call this one a mockery of the Real Presence but it is a denial and that is horrible.
The priest at mass stands in for Christ between us and God, reverently performing a sacramental rite, the propitiation for our sins but the new priest turns his back to God and faces the people putting on his best show. Another mockery of the priest hood and the mediation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The book The Great Sacrilege written by Fr James Wathen is my source.
God bless,
JoeZ
-
If I may,
I understand the implications of what is suggested here are drastic and possibly life changing. Please consider that I or any other keyboard commando do not have the grace of state to counsel you in religious matters. This is simply brotherly advise. You really ought to contact a traditional priest and ask him to be your spiritual advisor. Many of them will even make house calls so that you can commune occasionally.
I hope I've helped,
JoeZ
-
Stay at home instead of going to Mass? This sounds like the sort of insane "advice" Satan would come up with! The Novus Ordo Mass is my only option. The nearest Latin Mass would be hundreds of miles away.
Have you looked into the Catholic Eastern Rites? If you want to share your basic metropolitan location, I can look some up for you.
-
https://www.sydneycatholic.org/people/other_churches.shtml#
These are the rites other than Latin. They are all in four capital cities plus Wollongong. They will all be under Vatican II.
-
The Novus Ordo is an illicit mass even if it is a valid consecration of the Blessed Sacrament.
If Transubstantiation takes place, then a horrible sacrilege ensues.
If the sacrament is not effected, then it is still a horrible mockery of the unbloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
Either case is a danger to one's faith, and your faith is a prerequisite of your salvation. We are under an obligation to sanctify the Lord's day but doing something harmful to our faith is against the virtue of Religion and therefore obedience to the Sunday precept is mitigated according to our circuмstances. Pray long and hard and do penance for faith and courage. When a prayer for faith is answered, we certainly need courage to follow it.
Go bless,
JoeZ
I would remind you of what Jesus said to St Teresa of Avila. Once when there was a priest who was living in sin. Jesus referred to this priest as his enemy. He said that his love for us is so great that he willingly passed through the hands of this sinful enemy of his in order to be in communion with us.
-
I would remind you of what Jesus said to St Teresa of Avila. Once when there was a priest who was living in sin. Jesus referred to this priest as his enemy. He said that his love for us is so great that he willingly passed through the hands of this sinful enemy of his in order to be in communion with us.
I would remind you that was way before the Novus Ordo was inflicted on us ...
I know; before you get in first "+Williamson said etc..."
-
If there is transubstantiation then there is the real presence of Jesus. This is a Jesus who searches for souls to unite themselves with him. Is your soul the one who could hold back the hand of God's justice?
Is this a rhetorical question?
On the other hand, if you wish for an answer please post again revealing your identity. I don't wish to be questioned anonymously. Thank you.
-
Is this a rhetorical question?
On the other hand, if you wish for an answer please post again revealing your identity. I don't wish to be questioned anonymously. Thank you.
It is a rhetorical question and also a real possibility. Maria de Agreda wrote that the Blessed Mother told her that Spain was threatened by a great planned by the devil. However the demons fled when they saw the soul of one innocent person who had made a worthy communion. Just think what catastrophes could have been avoided by one holy communion.