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Author Topic: Advice needed for agnostic daughter  (Read 4925 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Advice needed for agnostic daughter
« on: December 02, 2014, 03:27:35 AM »
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  • She is a baptized, confirmed adult. I would like to present her with a simple book or writings of Church fathers that argue for the faith, in an intellectual, but easy read format.  Somewhere between a Baltimore Catechism and Aquinas, if possible.  

    She has moved away from the faith, and avoids all talk of it, but she is always respectful and polite.  My traditional Catholic son told me this evening that apparently she is going to 'have a talk with me' when we are all together Christmas week, to address that I'm too religious. :facepalm:  I can easily discuss that aspect with her, but no doubt a discussion on Why Catholicism will take place.  A writing(s) as described would best help her afterward, to solidify or enlighten her further.

    Veni Creator!


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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 08:57:36 AM »
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  • A traditional Catholic book on apologetics.  Can someone make a recommendation?


    Offline ggreg

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 11:50:56 AM »
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  • Perhaps her objection is not religion per se, but what she perceives as the negative effect it has on some people, namely you.

    If she perceives you as 'too religious' presumably she means that some of your character traits that she finds annoying or distasteful or disagreeable are down to your "religiousness" being excessive.

    I've never heard an agnostic accusing Jesus of being 'too religious'.  Nor the Good Samaritan for that matter.

    "Too religious" normally means that the other person perceives that you don't walk-it-like-you-talk-it.

    Offline Matthew

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 11:52:31 AM »
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  • The fact that she avoids all talk of it -- that says a lot. Her conscience is bothering her.

    It is reasonable and rational to believe in God Who created us, Who gave us laws, and Who established a religion that we must follow.

    There must be only one true religion, as truth is always ONE. (2+2 = 4, but not 3, 5, 6, 7...)

    Aristotle even worked out that there must be ONE God, along with other attributes. Basically, the notion of Greek gods, who were fallible, human, etc. was and is ridiculous. God must be all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. or He wouldn't be God.
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    Offline ggreg

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 11:55:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    The fact that she avoids all talk of it -- that says a lot. Her conscience is bothering her.


    It could mean that.  It could also mean that she finds discussing it fruitless.

    I avoid talking about lots of subjects with atheists and agnostics as I find their trite responses annoying and the conversations never lead anywhere.


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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 12:19:53 PM »
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  • Matthew guessed correctly, but your speculation is warranted ggreg, since you don't know the situation.  Actually, I feel guilty that I don't brow beat her.  I feel as though I should.  
    She was raised in a large Catholic family, so all family discussions about any topic have always incorporated the faith.  That's nothing new.  Our discussions now are what they've always been.  Since she's moved away from the faith, living in Godless Los Angeles, her contact with family is minimized, so I presume the faith talk is now stark by comparison.  

    Funny, I did not tell her this, but I began novenas for her conversion at the first of the year, just completing one to Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, beginning one to St. Joseph.  My priest told me I may begin to see Satan 'pushing back'.  I'm taking this talk she wants to have as an indication he is correct.

    Thank you for listening.  Recommendations appreciated!

    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 12:23:03 PM »
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  • Matthew, she and I used to talk about Aquinas/Aristotle years ago.  Thanks for that reminder that I can fall back on.

    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 01:02:46 PM »
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  • The agnostic daughter needs prayer, rosary intentions.

    I'm guessing that a lot of young women put on the airs of renouncing their faith because they are attracted to boys in a carnal way and want to act on that without having to run on over to the confessional every Sunday or so - especially since Sunday morning follows Saturday night when she probably acted on her "interests".  Once a young woman engages in this behavior, she's just a few weeks away from finding out that something about her biologically is now different and since she has renounced her faith, well, you put two and two together.  The ladies have it tough when they renounce the faith.

    Pray a Rosary for her daily.

    Try to explain the importance of a young woman remaining chaste.


    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 01:04:12 PM »
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  • Los Angeles has a few SSPX chapels and some sede chapels and even indult diocesan TLM chapels.  Los Angeles is not the reason for your daughter becoming agnostic.  

    I'm guessing it's boys and what she wants to do with those boys.


    Offline ggreg

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 04:57:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Matthew guessed correctly, but your speculation is warranted ggreg, since you don't know the situation.  Actually, I feel guilty that I don't brow beat her.  I feel as though I should.  
    She was raised in a large Catholic family, so all family discussions about any topic have always incorporated the faith.  That's nothing new.  Our discussions now are what they've always been.  Since she's moved away from the faith, living in Godless Los Angeles, her contact with family is minimized, so I presume the faith talk is now stark by comparison.  

    Funny, I did not tell her this, but I began novenas for her conversion at the first of the year, just completing one to Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, beginning one to St. Joseph.  My priest told me I may begin to see Satan 'pushing back'.  I'm taking this talk she wants to have as an indication he is correct.

    Thank you for listening.  Recommendations appreciated!


    So is she the only child of yours who lost their faith?  Why did others keep it and she didn't ?  You know her better than us so what is your theory?

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 07:00:58 PM »
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  • That's an important question, ggreg. I'm sure I am to blame.  We were ewtn-conservative Catholics, if you know what I mean. Traditional in many things, but, for examples, no headcovering in church, and <gulp> women in pants.  She went to a Catholic co-ed university.  That's when I noticed small changes beginning.  Had I been truly traditional then, I would have 1) not permitted a co-ed university and 2) reigned things in hard and fast while I could.  But hindsight, what a guilt trip.  
    She was working in NYC shortly after graduation, just a few blocks from the towers on Sept 11, and witnessed it all, and herded with the zombied dust covered masses who were trying to exit Manhattan.  That experience drove her to the west coast via a promotion.  It was all a steady downhill slide from there.

    Yes, she is the only family member who very quietly stopped receiving the sacraments.    For several years, she pretended she was still practicing; i.e., would attend Mass with the family when she visited, or we visited her, etc.,  but I found out from her brother that she was not.  Then last year she finally admitted the same. So we had what I thought was a straightforward discussion about salvation.  No name calling, no anger, but a very serious tone.  At the end she said "I just don't feel it anymore".  

    I've wracked my brain as to why she suddenly feels she must tell me to tone it down.  In sincere honesty, I haven't changed at all and this took me by surprise.  I believe the farther she moves from Christ, the more painful it is for her to hear anything related to Him.   Is it akin to a possession, where an exorcist stirs the demon with the Holy Name?  

    I'll keep offering rosaries and novenas.  It must be working.

    Thanks for your feedback.











     


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 07:55:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest

    Yes, she is the only family member who very quietly stopped receiving the sacraments.    For several years, she pretended she was still practicing; i.e., would attend Mass with the family when she visited, or we visited her, etc.,  but I found out from her brother that she was not.  Then last year she finally admitted the same. So we had what I thought was a straightforward discussion about salvation.  No name calling, no anger, but a very serious tone.  At the end she said "I just don't feel it anymore".  


    Herein lies the evil of focusing too much on feelings in religion. It's not just inferior, it's positively dangerous. When the feelings (necessarily) fade, what happens then?

    Bishop Williamson frequently talked about NIFs (nice internal feelings) in a negative light. So many people pursue them in their practice of religion, though.

    A close analogy is marriage. Unless you enter marriage with a rational idea of what Catholic marriage is (sacrificing for children, a life shared sacrificing together, etc.), you are bound for trouble WHEN things cool down romantically (usually after the first few kids come along).

    It's not that emotions are BAD per se -- just that they are unreliable, inconsistent, and therefore dangerous.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 09:07:47 PM »
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  • My Catholic Faith book.  I gave this book to my niece when she graduated from High School.  She did not know the value of this book, til after she married and then she found the value.  It is "the" book.  You can find one on Amazon or go to :  Sarto House, p.o. box 270611, Kansas City, MO 64127-0611.  Brand New it can cost $40. at least and is 11" X 8" hard cover and is maroon red.  It is a manual of Religion with the old pictures like you see in the Imitation of Christ.  The book is by Louis LaRavoire Morrow.  Everyone should have one on their shelf.

    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 09:48:59 PM »
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  • A couple questions:

    - Is she the oldest child or daughter?
    - How many children do you have?

    Änσnymσus

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    Advice needed for agnostic daughter
    « Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 10:31:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    My Catholic Faith book.  I gave this book to my niece when she graduated from High School.  She did not know the value of this book, til after she married and then she found the value.  It is "the" book.  You can find one on Amazon or go to :  Sarto House, p.o. box 270611, Kansas City, MO 64127-0611.  Brand New it can cost $40. at least and is 11" X 8" hard cover and is maroon red.  It is a manual of Religion with the old pictures like you see in the Imitation of Christ.  The book is by Louis LaRavoire Morrow.  Everyone should have one on their shelf.



    Also available from Angelous Press