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Author Topic: Advice needed- baptize me please!  (Read 506 times)

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Offline Malleus 01

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Advice needed- baptize me please!
« on: April 12, 2012, 11:21:50 AM »
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    I am posting as a guest because I live in a small community of traditional Catholics who could probably (maybe) figure out who I am, and this is personal.

    To make a very long story short:

    The past couple of years I have had some huge spiritual and religious "wake-up calls" , so to speak. I have gone from being a kind-of agnostic, to a self-described Christian, and now I really feel called toward the traditional Catholic church.  Interestingly, my huge leaps of faith have always happened during Lent.

    Anyway, I feel an extreme sense of urgency. I want to be baptized, I want to experience Mass from a baptized, practicing point of view, I want to understand and practice this religion. It isn't a want, it is a need. I also have two children that need baptized as well.

    This is an extremely emotional and important part of my life right now. I have had nothing on my mind the past month but being closer to God and practicing the right religion. Many of my mind-sets and lifestyle particulars have changed, for the better. It feels so good to admit this to myself, I finally feel like this is right!

    Here is my "problem"- I live in a small town with a large parish. There are several priests here. I wrote a note to them a couple of weeks ago, and thought that I explained my standpoint and urgency fairly well. I know they are busy and have many responsibilities, but isn't conversion/ baptism one of the most important? I really have an intense need to discuss my "awakening" with someone, ask some really important questions, and start practicing the way I should. Why the slow response? Are there not souls at risk here?

    If someone could offer some words of insight, experience, or comfort I would much appreciate it.



    Well - if you have an intense Desire to be Sacramentally Baptised then you should contact a Traditional Priest.  Only he can confer Sacrament.   Now at the risk of starting a huge Debate amongst Traditional Catholics who support the Dimonds - the Church has taught that since you have this intense desire - that if something unforseen should happen - you may have already converted to the one true faith through Baptism of Desire.   Now - that doesnt mean you do not need to be Baptised Sacramentally nor does it mean that you shouldnt do so as soon as humanly possible - what it means is that GOD alone will be your judge and the fact that you have come to that realization - then do not fear that you havent been Baptised up until now.   Put your faith in GOD.   That he will deliver you. And contact a Traditional Priest and make arrangements for your Baptism. Do so with joy in your heart - not fear of impending doom.
     
    X. SUBSTITUTES FOR THE SACRAMENT
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquae or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood. (I) The baptism of desire (baptismus flaminis) is a perfect contrition of heart, and every act of perfect charity or pure love of God which contains, at least implicitly, a desire (votum) of baptism. The Latin word flamen is used because Flamen is a name for the Holy Ghost, Whose special office it is to move the heart to love God and to conceive penitence for sin. The "baptism of the Holy Ghost" is a term employed in the third century by the anonymous author of the book "De Rebaptismate". The efficacy of this baptism of desire to supply the place of the baptism of water, as to its principal effect, is proved from the words of Christ. After He had declared the necessity of baptism (John, iii), He promised justifying grace for acts of charity or perfect contrition (John, xiv): "He that loveth Me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." And again: "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him." Since these texts declare that justifying grace is bestowed on account of acts of perfect charity or contrition, it is evident that these acts supply the place of baptism as to its principal effect, the remission of sins. This doctrine is set forth clearly by the Council of Trent. In the fourteenth session (cap. iv) the council teaches that contrition is sometimes perfected by charity, and reconciles man to God, before the Sacrament of Penance is received. In the fourth chapter of the sixth session, in speaking of the necessity of baptism, it says that men cannot obtain original justice "except by the laver of regeneration or its desire" (voto). The same doctrine is taught by Pope Innocent III (cap. Debitum, iv, De Bapt.), and the contrary propositions are condemned by Popes Pius V and Gregory XII, in proscribing the 31st and 33rd propositions of Baius.

    We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose over the Emperor Valentinian II, a catechumen. The doctrine of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose asks: "Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (IV, De Bapt., xxii) and St. Bernard (Ep. lxxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire. If it be said that this doctrine contradicts the universal law of baptism made by Christ (John, iii), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John xiv) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire. Neither would it be a consequence of this doctrine that a person justified by the baptism of desire would thereby be dispensed from seeking after the baptism of water when the latter became a possibility. For, as has already been explained the baptismus flaminis contains the votum of receiving the baptismus aquae. It is true that some of the Fathers of the Church arraign severely those who content themselves with the desire of receiving the sacrament of regeneration, but they are speaking of catechumens who of their own accord delay the reception of baptism from unpraiseworthy motives. Finally, it is to be noted that only adults are capable of receiving the baptism of desire.


    Now to be Clear - the SACRAMENT of BAPTISM is necessary for it is instituted by Our LORD.   But from what you are saying - if sincere - no Catholic will condemn you for your desire for Baptism.  Hold fast to that Desire until that wonderful day when you are Sacramentally Baptised and do not fear.  ( And get those Kids Baptised as well)

    Pax


    Offline Malleus 01

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    Advice needed- baptize me please!
    « Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 02:12:48 PM »
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    Malleus- Thank you for taking the time to post all of that info. That is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

    Cupertino- My fear is not that people would find out I am converting, rather my fear is that my frustration with the slower response to my note would be mistaken for insulting the parish/ priests. I am not sure if you are familiar with life in a smaller-town, but this is how it goes sometimes. I am beyond positive that the parish is not NO. Really. Perhaps my terminology or wording is incorrect, for that I ask forgiveness for my ignorance as Catholicism is so new to me. I am fairly sure we have several priests because of the school connected to the parish and the sheer parish size.


    You are Welcome - As for whether or not the Church is "Traditional" if the Mass is Latin and the Priest Faces the Altar with Tabernacle then the Church is probably Traditional.  

    If however , You hear Guitars - You see a round shaped Church with nondescript walls - no statuary - and a Table with the Priest Facing the People

    Then

    RUN

    You are not in a Traditional Catholic Church.