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Traditional Catholic Faith => Anσnymσus Posts Allowed => Topic started by: Änσnymσus on November 30, 2019, 04:23:12 PM

Title: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on November 30, 2019, 04:23:12 PM: A close family member has the habit of detraction about practically everyone. Especially when speaking to his mother. I seriously try not to eavesdrop, but he speaks loudly and it's difficult not to overhear. I even turn on loud appliances sometimes so I can't hear. It hurts me to hear him tell all the faults, real or imagined, first-hand or hearsay, about people I either care for or have compassion for (either in my own family, social circle, or in general) When they are speaking it's just a litany of ridicule about the faults, faux pas, and idiocy of other people that they either know or have heard of. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. I am also pretty sure he does it regarding myself, since I doubt I hold any special immunity. It really bothers me, but I don't know if it's my place to correct this person. I know he would be angry and defensive if I point out the seriousness of the sin of detraction to him. Should I just say nothing?
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on November 30, 2019, 04:40:04 PM: Next time they are at it, walk in and speak up (with another family member if possible). So that t hey know you all know what they are doing.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Nadir on November 30, 2019, 04:59:09 PM: Yes, he should be challenged for his own good and for the good of all.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 01, 2019, 01:14:26 PM: Open a can of whoop ass on him so he stops behaving like a gossipy woman.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: poche on December 03, 2019, 12:11:44 AM: Quote from: Anonymous on November 30, 2019, 04:23:12 PM
A close family member has the habit of detraction about practically everyone. Especially when speaking to his mother. I seriously try not to eavesdrop, but he speaks loudly and it's difficult not to overhear. I even turn on loud appliances sometimes so I can't hear. It hurts me to hear him tell all the faults, real or imagined, first-hand or hearsay, about people I either care for or have compassion for (either in my own family, social circle, or in general) When they are speaking it's just a litany of ridicule about the faults, faux pas, and idiocy of other people that they either know or have heard of. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. I am also pretty sure he does it regarding myself, since I doubt I hold any special immunity. It really bothers me, but I don't know if it's my place to correct this person. I know he would be angry and defensive if I point out the seriousness of the sin of detraction to him. Should I just say nothing?
Would saying to him do any good?
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 03, 2019, 12:20:21 AM: Lots of lies from you here too: https://forums.catholic.com/u/poche/activity (https://forums.catholic.com/u/poche/activity)
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Ladislaus on December 03, 2019, 06:22:28 AM: St. Thomas lays out the criteria for when rebukes are necessary and permitted.

Will it do any good? Are you in a position of authority over the person?
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3033.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3033.htm)
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 11, 2019, 06:36:13 PM: OP here, thank you all who answered. After thinking awhile, I really don't think it would do any good. It would just anger him and make him defensive. So I'll just keep quiet and continue praying for him.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: poche on December 17, 2019, 01:46:21 AM: Quote from: Anonymous on December 11, 2019, 06:36:13 PM
OP here, thank you all who answered. After thinking awhile, I really don't think it would do any good. It would just anger him and make him defensive. So I'll just keep quiet and continue praying for him.
If you think it wouldn't do any good then you shouldn't say anything.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 17, 2019, 10:54:28 AM: Quote from: poche on December 17, 2019, 01:46:21 AM
If you think it wouldn't do any good then you shouldn't say anything.
As if your LYING is a good thing???
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: poche on December 20, 2019, 12:37:14 AM: Quote from: Anonymous on December 17, 2019, 10:54:28 AM
As if your LYING is a good thing???
Maintaining a prudential silence for the sake of charity is not the same as lying.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 20, 2019, 01:12:55 AM: Quote from: poche on December 20, 2019, 12:37:14 AM
Maintaining a prudential silence for the sake of charity is not the same as lying.
It is not "prudential silence" to falsify Scripture for your convenience or protect your pride.
It is not "prudential silence" to claim Jorge preached against the тαℓмυd when he did not mention the тαℓмυd.
It is not "prudential silence" to claim Jorge acknowledged differences between Judaism and the One True Faith when JOrge instead preached indifferentism.
LYING is not "prudential silence."
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: poche on December 20, 2019, 05:00:26 AM: Quote from: Anonymous on December 20, 2019, 01:12:55 AM
It is not "prudential silence" to falsify Scripture for your convenience or protect your pride.
It is not "prudential silence" to claim Jorge preached against the тαℓмυd when he did not mention the тαℓмυd.
It is not "prudential silence" to claim Jorge acknowledged differences between Judaism and the One True Faith when JOrge instead preached indifferentism.
LYING is not "prudential silence."
You do not have to use the word 'тαℓмυd' to preach against it.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 20, 2019, 06:12:10 AM: Quote from: poche on December 20, 2019, 05:00:26 AM
You do not have to use the word 'тαℓмυd' to preach against it.
And yet there is not one word in Jorge's allocution against the тαℓмυd.
You are a LIAR.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Jaynek on December 20, 2019, 06:52:02 AM: Quote from: poche on December 20, 2019, 05:00:26 AM
You do not have to use the word 'тαℓмυd' to preach against it.
In the talk in which you claim Francis was preaching against the тαℓмυd few people would have recognized any connection to the тαℓмυd. Those of us with sufficient background knowledge understand that the Scripture that Francis quoted is a condemnation of тαℓмυd. Most people do not have that level of knowledge and would not have understood it that way. They are more likely to have understood allusions to the "traditions of men" as a condemnation of traditional Catholics (whom Francis is known to dislike) than criticism of Jews (whom he is known to favour.) Given his history, he probably intended that it be understood that way.

It is completely dishonest to claim that this was preaching against the тαℓмυd. It is so obviously untrue that I find it hard to imagine that you expect any one to believe it. I suspect that you are only saying it to provoke Mark.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Mark 79 on December 20, 2019, 09:53:06 AM: Here is Jorge's entire allocution cited by Poche as "preaching against the тαℓмυd":
 https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/ (https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/)

Quote
Dear Brothers and Sisters, good morning!

The Book of the Acts of the Apostles recounts that the Church of Jerusalem received Saint Paul, after that transforming encounter with Jesus, and thanks to Barnabas’ mediation. However, because of the hostility of some, he was constrained to go to Tarsus, his native city, where Barnabas met him to involve him in the long journey of the Word of God. It can be said that the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, on which we are commenting in these catecheses, is the Book of the long journey of the Word of God: the Word of God is proclaimed, and proclaimed everywhere. This journey begins following intense persecution (Cf. Acts 11:19); but the latter, instead of causing a setback for evangelization, became an opportunity to widen the field wherein to spread the good seed of the Word. The Christians were not scared. They had to flee, but they fled with the Word and spread the Word a bit everywhere.

Paul and Barnabas arrived first at Antioch of Syria, where they stayed for a whole year to teach and help the community to put down roots (Cf. Acts 11:26). They were proclaiming to the Hebrew community, to the Jews. Thus Antioch became the center of the missionary propulsion, thanks to the preaching with which the two evangelizers — Paul and Barnabas — influenced the hearts of believers, that here, at Antioch, were called for the first time “Christians” (Cf. Acts 11:26).

The nature of the Church emerges from the Book of the Acts, which is not a fortress but a tent capable of enlarging its space (Cf. Isaiah 54:2) and giving access to all. The Church is either “going forth” or it’s not Church, it is either a path that is always widening its space so that all can enter, or it’s not Church,’ — “a Church with open doors” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, 46), always with the doors open. When I see a church here, in this city, or when I see it in the other diocese from which I come, with the doors closed, this is a bad sign. The churches must always have the doors open because this is the symbol of what a church is: always open. The Church is “called to be always the open House of the Father. [. . . ] So that, if someone wants to follow a motion of the Spirit and approaches, seeking God, he/she won’t meet with the coldness of a closed door” (Ibid., 47).

However, for whom is this novelty of open doors? For pagans, because the Apostles preached to the Jews, but the Gentiles also came to knock on the door of the Church. And this novelty of the open doors to the Gentiles unleashed a very animated controversy. Some Jews affirmed the necessity to become Jews through circuмcision to be saved, and then receive Baptism. They said: “Unless you are circuмcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved” (Acts 15:1), that is, you cannot then receive Baptism. First the Jєωιѕн rite and then Baptism: this was their position. And to settle the question, Paul and Barnabas consulted the Council of the Apostles and of the Elders at Jerusalem, and it gave place to what is held to be the first Council in the history of the Church, the Council or Assembly of Jerusalem, to which Paul makes reference in the Letter to the Galatians (2:1-10).

A very delicate theological, spiritual and disciplinary question was addressed, namely, the relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses. Decisive in the course of the Assembly were the speeches of Peter and James, “columns” of the Mother Church (Cf. Acts 15:7-21; Galatians 2:9).

They invited not to impose circuмcision on the Gentiles, but to ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions. From the discussion stemmed the common way, and this decision was ratified with the so-called Apostolic Letter sent to Antioch.

The Assembly of Jerusalem offers us an important light on the way with which to address divergences and to seek the “truth in charity” (Ephesians 4:15). It reminds us that the ecclesial methods for the resolution of conflicts are based on dialogue made of attentive and patient listening, and on discernment made in the light of the Spirit. It is the Spirit, in fact, that helps to overcome the closures and tensions and works in hearts so that they reach unity, in truth and goodness. This text helps us to understand synodality. The way they write the Letter is interesting: the Apostles begin by saying: “The Holy Spirit and we think that . . . “ The presence of the Holy Spirit is proper of synodality, otherwise it’s not synodality, it’s a parlor, parliament, something else . . .

Let us ask the Lord to reinforce in all Christians, especially in Bishops and presbyters, the desire and the responsibility of communion. May He help us to live dialogue, listening and encounter with brothers in the faith and with those that are distant, to enjoy and manifest the fruitfulness of the Church, called to be in every time “joyous Mother of many children” (Cf. Psalm 113:9).

[Original text: Italian] [ZENIT’s translation by Virginia M. Forrester]

Not one word about тαℓмυd or tradition of men. He mentions circuмcision which is Mosaic, not тαℓмυdic. The тαℓмυd was compiled between 300-700 A.D. and Jorge made not a single reference to that period, not one word preaching against anything that could be construed as тαℓмυdic.
Poche is a willful, habitual, unrepentant, serial liar. In Poche's pretence that his own words were "prudential silence" Poche lies, as if words are any kind of "silence," so even in his defense of his lies, Poche lies.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 20, 2019, 09:55:13 AM: Reposted/re-formatted for readability.

Here is Jorge's entire allocution cited by Poche as "preaching against the тαℓмυd": https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/ (https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/)

Quote
Dear Brothers and Sisters, good morning!

The Book of the Acts of the Apostles recounts that the Church of Jerusalem received Saint Paul, after that transforming encounter with Jesus, and thanks to Barnabas’ mediation. However, because of the hostility of some, he was constrained to go to Tarsus, his native city, where Barnabas met him to involve him in the long journey of the Word of God. It can be said that the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, on which we are commenting in these catecheses, is the Book of the long journey of the Word of God: the Word of God is proclaimed, and proclaimed everywhere. This journey begins following intense persecution (Cf. Acts 11:19); but the latter, instead of causing a setback for evangelization, became an opportunity to widen the field wherein to spread the good seed of the Word. The Christians were not scared. They had to flee, but they fled with the Word and spread the Word a bit everywhere.

Paul and Barnabas arrived first at Antioch of Syria, where they stayed for a whole year to teach and help the community to put down roots (Cf. Acts 11:26). They were proclaiming to the Hebrew community, to the Jews. Thus Antioch became the center of the missionary propulsion, thanks to the preaching with which the two evangelizers — Paul and Barnabas — influenced the hearts of believers, that here, at Antioch, were called for the first time “Christians” (Cf. Acts 11:26).

The nature of the Church emerges from the Book of the Acts, which is not a fortress but a tent capable of enlarging its space (Cf. Isaiah 54:2) and giving access to all. The Church is either “going forth” or it’s not Church, it is either a path that is always widening its space so that all can enter, or it’s not Church,’ — “a Church with open doors” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, 46), always with the doors open. When I see a church here, in this city, or when I see it in the other diocese from which I come, with the doors closed, this is a bad sign. The churches must always have the doors open because this is the symbol of what a church is: always open. The Church is “called to be always the open House of the Father. [. . . ] So that, if someone wants to follow a motion of the Spirit and approaches, seeking God, he/she won’t meet with the coldness of a closed door” (Ibid., 47).

However, for whom is this novelty of open doors? For pagans, because the Apostles preached to the Jews, but the Gentiles also came to knock on the door of the Church. And this novelty of the open doors to the Gentiles unleashed a very animated controversy. Some Jews affirmed the necessity to become Jews through circuмcision to be saved, and then receive Baptism. They said: “Unless you are circuмcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved” (Acts 15:1), that is, you cannot then receive Baptism. First the Jєωιѕн rite and then Baptism: this was their position. And to settle the question, Paul and Barnabas consulted the Council of the Apostles and of the Elders at Jerusalem, and it gave place to what is held to be the first Council in the history of the Church, the Council or Assembly of Jerusalem, to which Paul makes reference in the Letter to the Galatians (2:1-10).

A very delicate theological, spiritual and disciplinary question was addressed, namely, the relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses. Decisive in the course of the Assembly were the speeches of Peter and James, “columns” of the Mother Church (Cf. Acts 15:7-21; Galatians 2:9).

They invited not to impose circuмcision on the Gentiles, but to ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions. From the discussion stemmed the common way, and this decision was ratified with the so-called Apostolic Letter sent to Antioch.

The Assembly of Jerusalem offers us an important light on the way with which to address divergences and to seek the “truth in charity” (Ephesians 4:15). It reminds us that the ecclesial methods for the resolution of conflicts are based on dialogue made of attentive and patient listening, and on discernment made in the light of the Spirit. It is the Spirit, in fact, that helps to overcome the closures and tensions and works in hearts so that they reach unity, in truth and goodness. This text helps us to understand synodality. The way they write the Letter is interesting: the Apostles begin by saying: “The Holy Spirit and we think that . . . “ The presence of the Holy Spirit is proper of synodality, otherwise it’s not synodality, it’s a parlor, parliament, something else . . .

Let us ask the Lord to reinforce in all Christians, especially in Bishops and presbyters, the desire and the responsibility of communion. May He help us to live dialogue, listening and encounter with brothers in the faith and with those that are distant, to enjoy and manifest the fruitfulness of the Church, called to be in every time “joyous Mother of many children” (Cf. Psalm 113:9).

[Original text: Italian] [ZENIT’s translation by Virginia M. Forrester]

Not one word about тαℓмυd or tradition of men. He mentions circuмcision which is Mosaic, not тαℓмυdic. The тαℓмυd was compiled between 300-700 A.D. and Jorge made not a single reference to that period, not one word preaching against anything that could be construed as тαℓмυdic.
Poche is a willful, habitual, unrepentant, serial liar. In Poche's pretence that his own words were "prudential silence" Poche lies, as if words are any kind of "silence," so even in his defense of his lies, Poche lies.
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Mark 79 on December 20, 2019, 10:00:14 AM: And in the same day, another LIE from Poche.

Poche pretended this morning that his falsification of Scripture was just an inference that the Gates of Hell didn't prevail against Peter personally because Peter is in Heaven.

The problem with that transparent LIE?

Poche used QUOTATION MARKS, hence cannot be construed as an inference:

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301
Title: Re: Advice concerning Detraction
Post by: Änσnymσus on December 20, 2019, 11:22:21 PM: Poochie willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. He substituted "you" for "it" to bolster his equally phony contention about Jorge.

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)

Weeks after being challenged on that lie, Poche pretended that his falsification of Scripture was just an inference that the Gates of Hell didn't prevail against Peter personally because Peter is in Heaven. The problem with that transparent LIE? Poche used QUOTATION MARKS, hence his falsified Biblical quote cannot be construed as an inference. https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/novus-ordo-hs-student-dilemma/msg680060/#msg680060 (https://www.cathinfo.com/catholic-living-in-the-modern-world/novus-ordo-hs-student-dilemma/msg680060/#msg680060)

 Poche has even defended his LIES as “prudential silence,” as if words are any kind of “silence.” https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/advice-concerning-detraction/msg679757/#msg679757 (https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/advice-concerning-detraction/msg679757/#msg679757)