Does this mean a recession is beginning?
OP here: My position has been eliminated and I received my 60 day notice. I will receive severance + bonus and job search assistance. It's a group Zoom firing. They said it's because they want to keep profits high. I'm totally disgusted.
Usually in that 60-day "lame duck" period, they're not expecting a lot of productivity out of you and so you can probably show up late, leave early, work from home more, etc.Are you seriously encouraging him to commit a sin of robbing his employer of the time/service he is being paid for???
Are you seriously encouraging him to commit a sin of robbing his employer of the time/service he is being paid for???
Are you seriously encouraging him to commit a sin of robbing his employer of the time/service he is being paid for???Chill. My boss already told me I basically don't have to do anything for the next 60 days.
OP, could you describe your job duties?Tech project mgmt. 25 yrs exp.
I'm just curious what jobs are not safe, what jobs don't offer enough benefit to a company, etc.
I have children who are approaching "working age" so this isn't just idle curiosity on my part.
Give if a rest. As I said, the employer is not expecting any productivity during those 60 days. It's offered to appease the wrath of the laid-off workforce and for PR reasons, and most employees are salaried (aka "exempt") so there's no expectation of putting in 40 hours. They often require you to work more than 40 under the terms of exempt employment, but the downside for them is that they also can't require employees to work 40 to get their full pay. You evidently have no understanding of corporate employment. They'll expect you to work 50-60 hours per week without paying OT under that kind of employment, but then can't force you to work 40 when things are slow. It's not hourly employment. And, even if it were for OP, there's no expectation whatsoever for full productivity during the lame duck timeframe except possibly to do knowledge transfer of your job duties, if applicable.It's tech so....yeah.
Are you seriously encouraging him to commit a sin of robbing his employer of the time/service he is being paid for???
OP here: My position has been eliminated and I received my 60 day notice. I will receive severance + bonus and job search assistance. It's a group Zoom firing. They said it's because they want to keep profits high. I'm totally disgusted.Sorry OP. Your OP did sound like this was exactly what was going to happen. That hidden invitee list was suspect.
Give if a rest. As I said, the employer is not expecting any productivity during those 60 days. It's offered to appease the wrath of the laid-off workforce and for PR reasons, and most employees are salaried (aka "exempt") so there's no expectation of putting in 40 hours. They often require you to work more than 40 under the terms of exempt employment, but the downside for them is that they also can't require employees to work 40 to get their full pay. You evidently have no understanding of corporate employment. They'll expect you to work 50-60 hours per week without paying OT under that kind of employment, but then can't force you to work 40 when things are slow. It's not hourly employment. And, even if it were for OP, there's no expectation whatsoever for full productivity during the lame duck timeframe except possibly to do knowledge transfer of your job duties, if applicable.
OP here: Have confirmed I am to not do any work for the next 60 days but look for a new job.
Tech project mgmt. 25 yrs exp.
But they have several "project managers" whose main work is to give/receive e-mails and update a spreadsheet. They also have "schedulers" who schedule where the techs will work each day.
There is tons of inefficiency and lost money (stolen by employees, fines for keeping equipment too long, repeat trips to sites that didn't need to happen, etc.) so their answer? Software. That's where I come in.
Yes, I agree.
"Exempt" employees have it written in their contracts that they were not paid hourly (which is most tech employees). Most of the time this translates into benefit for the employer, where they can get 50-60 hours out of you per week without having to pay overtime, but if you're slow and have less work, you also get paid full salary even if you work 10-20 hours per week. That's one reason employers deliberately understaff, knowing they can squeeze an extra 10-20 hours out of many employees. But the way those contracts are written, they have to pay you your "salary" whether you work 10 hours or 60 hours. Corporate work is not clock-punching where you get paid by the hour ... well, except in some cases for certain types of employees.
And, as OP has since confirmed, they're not expected to work during these 60 days. That's usually what happens with the mass layoffs.
Fortunately I’ve never had to work for a corporation.I don't think it would be far-fetched to have a study out there somewhere showing a direct relationship between the size of a company and the dissatisfaction of their workforce.
My advice would be, put in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, but don't bust your hump.
My advice would be, put in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, but don't bust your hump.I think this is good advice. If for no other reason than to make it much more likely that they will give you a good reference. Even if they said you don't have to do anything for the next 60 days.
I don't think it would be far-fetched to have a study out there somewhere showing a direct relationship between the size of a company and the dissatisfaction of their workforce.
OP, prayers that you'll find a new job quickly. :pray:
I think this is good advice. If for no other reason than to make it much more likely that they will give you a good reference. Even if they said you don't have to do anything for the next 60 days.
That won't make any difference in terms of "references". If his boss isn't assigning him any work, there's no work for him to do. TPMs have to be assigned to projects. If he's not assigned to a project, there's no work for him to do. He may need to transition his projects to others (do some knowledge transfer), but if they're laying off TPMs, they're probably going more to a self-managed (scrum/agile) scenario where the remaining project members will just self-manage, and they already have the requisite knowledge to keep it moving.Then I'll just say that there is probably a decent middle ground between walking in late, leaving early, wasting time during the day and keeping his nose to the grindstone.
I was actually on 2-3 projects which had a PM on them who was dismissed from the company. We simply carried on without a Project Manager, since we just filled the gap that was left ourselves. We know more about the details of what needed to get done, when, etc. than the PM did.
I think that people are misunderstanding the nature of this work. It's not like working in a factor or an assembly line or doing other "concrete" work.
Then I'll just say that there is probably a decent middle ground between walking in late, leaving early, wasting time during the day and keeping his nose to the grindstone.
OP here: I hope this is my last update and please read carefully.It sure has. I'm sorry I tried to offer you support/guidance.
My job was ELIMINATED. My job does not exist as of TODAY. I have no job to do and I have been instructed by my manager and my RTE both to not do any work because my job was eliminated. There is no work because I have no role anymore. I am no longer in the org chart. For those hard of understanding, quit suggesting I continue to go in and perform busy work tasks to look productive. That is real theft right there. I am a remote tech worker so there's no office to go and sit in a cubicle for 8 hours twiddling my thumbs. I have been instructed to not attend any more of my team's meetings because my team no longer exists. This isn't the IGA where I can just go in and hope they assign me sweeping the parking lot so that the bossman gives me a good reference. Do you people understand in corporate tech you don't even use references? The name recognition alone is your reference. My resume is stacked with Fortune 100 companies and certifications. I don't use references. Please get into the 20th century. One does not simply go become a mortician after investing 30 years in a career that pays $145K a year. I will get another job because my certifications are highly sought after. Now that tech is having layoffs, contract work will be more available and I will possibly make a third more in my hourly rate anyway.
I'm just letting people know that layoffs are happening in healthcare and it's going to trickle down. Most of the people my company laid off were NURSES. Get ready for longer waiting times in hospitals and clinics. The cause of the RIFs was the federal government is reimbursing less for Medicare 2024. This will affect many retirees on Medicare because claims are being denied at a higher rate and they are using AI to process and deny the claims. All the insurance companies are doing it so don't think it's isolated.
I am being paid for an additional 60 days because that is the law in my state for companies 100+. We are also a huge government contractor so regulations out the wazzoo.
Hope this clears up misconceptions. It's probably best that people who have no experience in this situation not comment because you embarrass yourself with your ignorance.
OP here: I hope this is my last update and please read carefully.
It's probably best that people who have no experience in this situation not comment because you embarrass yourself with your ignorance.
In this case, yes.
Was this really necessary? :facepalm:
OP here: My position has been eliminated and I received my 60 day notice. I will receive severance + bonus and job search assistance. It's a group Zoom firing. They said it's because they want to keep profits high. I'm totally disgusted.I am sorry to hear this. It’s happening everywhere in every industry.
I think this is good advice. If for no other reason than to make it much more likely that they will give you a good reference. Even if they said you don't have to do anything for the next 60 days.The 60 days notice is a benefit to the employee so they have time to find another job. With bigger companies, internal HR often helps you job hunt within the company.
I'm just letting people know that layoffs are happening in healthcare and it's going to trickle down.Thanks. I'm also in healthcare and there's a wave of RIFs going on for these last 3 days, each one under 100 people, so they don't have to report it. In the grand scheme of things, 300 people being let go is small, considering Oct/Nov were the major downsizing times, with hundreds of people fired and also many too early retirement.
Thank you. Even when I try to stick to less controversial topics and try to be helpful, I can't seem to win.
Was this really necessary? :facepalm:
Thank you. Even when I try to stick to less controversial topics and try to be helpful, I can't seem to win.If you give people advice in areas beyond your experience, then you aren't being helpful. Bad advice, even if given in charity, is still bad advice.
If you give people advice in areas beyond your experience, then you aren't being helpful. Bad advice, even if given in charity, is still bad advice.Well then, I guess most of us shouldn't even bother trying to help since most of us are probably not experienced in most of the anonymous threads posted here. The OP was obnoxious in his last post. Where was the charity there?
Was this really necessary? :facepalm:
Well then, I guess most of us shouldn't even bother trying to help since most of us are probably not experienced in most of the anonymous threads posted here. The OP was obnoxious in his last post. Where was the charity there?
Absolutely. When I was slanderously accused of encouraging someone to defraud an employer, it became necessary. I had to explain how these 60-day notice periods work, how exempt employment works, and how corporations work in general ... and you still had people who are completely ignorant of the matter doubling down. This thread was derailed by the initial slanderous accusation made by someone without any knowledge of the situation, thus turning the thread into a "controversial" one.
I thought your question "was this necessary?" was meant for the OP.
Well Lad, here is what you wrote: “Usually in that 60-day "lame duck" period, they're not expecting a lot of productivity out of you and so you can probably show up late, leave early, work from home more, etc.”
If you were a bit more descriptive, explaining how the system worked initially, I don’t think any of us would have taken your post in a bad light. You must admit that without your follow up posts and confirmation from the OP, it does look bit scandalous.
Absolutely. When I was slanderously accused of encouraging someone to defraud an employer, it became necessary. I had to explain how these 60-day notice periods work, how exempt employment works, and how corporations work in general ... and you still had people who are completely ignorant of the matter doubling down. This thread was derailed by the initial slanderous accusation made by someone without any knowledge of the situation, thus turning the thread into a "controversial" one.No, this thread was never "controversial"...only to you.
No, this thread was never "controversial"...only to you.
You're the one who used the term. See your own post above.Not in reference to this thread. My point was I have been trying to take part in the less controversial threads on this forum. In other words, one like this one that isn't controversial. It was simply an anonymous thread where the OP was asking for support/advice, etc. about losing his job ....NOT controversial. Of course, later on the OP came across as an arrogant, anonymous jerk. Maybe there's more to his story.
It was simply an anonymous thread where the OP was asking for support/advice, etc. about losing his job .Please quote my request for support/advice.
Please quote my request for support/advice.You're right. You never asked explicitly. You only wrote this in the OP:
You're right. You never asked explicitly. You only wrote this in the OP:Heck, the OP is filthy rich to boot having made $4.35 million in her career, she really doesn't even need another job.:fryingpan:
I'm feeling nervous because I'm over 50 and I've heard it's very difficult for older workers to get jobs.
And the rest of us idiots who felt badly for you chimed in, gave some ideas, said we'd pray for you, etc ,etc but then you showed us!:
Do you people understand in corporate tech you don't even use references? The name recognition alone is your reference. My resume is stacked with Fortune 100 companies and certifications. I don't use references. Please get into the 20th century. One does not simply go become a mortician after investing 30 years in a career that pays $145K a year. I will get another job because my certifications are highly sought after. Now that tech is having layoffs, contract work will be more available and I will possibly make a third more in my hourly rate anyway.
So, now you're showing that you're NOT nervous about getting another job. MMMkay. Good luck and good riddance.
I thought your question "was this necessary?" was meant for the OP.
OP said: Please get into the 20th century.You do know, don't you, that we are now in the 21st century.
Heck, the OP is filthy rich to boot having made $4.35 million in her career, she really doesn't even need another job.:fryingpan:
Heck, the OP is filthy rich to boot having made $4.35 million in her career, she really doesn't even need another job.:fryingpan:
Actually, OP could have retired early with that income and number of years working. It's called reducing your living expenses.
How to say "I still live with Mom and Dad" without saying "I still live with Mom and Dad".
You do know how real life works, don't you? Have you ever supported yourself, even for as little as 6 months? I'm guessing not.
Myself and a few others in a low-cost area of the country (Texas) are writing software that's going to streamline, automate, and allow the company to cut all kinds of management jobs (especially project managers, job schedulers, etc.) because those jobs will be completely redundant after our software is fully complete.Does this have anything to do with smartcontracts?
And I'm guessing being motivated by jealousy regarding the salary (which OP should probably not have revealed).So Blabbermouth needs you to defend his indiscretion. Of course, there is altogether too much guessing, and now you are guessing the motives of one anonymous joker. This thread should disappear out of sight.
So Blabbermouth needs you to defend his indiscretion. Of course, there is altogether too much guessing, and now you are guessing the motives of one anonymous joker. This thread should disappear out of sight.
Anyone who's capable of English comprehension can see the envy/jealousy in the repeated taunts about OP's salary. There's very little guesswork involved. But many individuals here lack basic reading comprehension skills.Now that's the funniest thing I've read on this thread yet. Talk about other's comprehension when you get snarky when people give a Catholic response to what you wrote because you couldn't articulate what you meant.
Nonsense. You act as if 1) that money is tax-free and 2) the individual has no expenses. Depending on where you live, how many children you have, etc. ... one is not necessarily "filthy rich" from $145K per year. That's nothing in a place like California, where a tiny 3-bed 1-bath home can cost close to a million dollars. You can't make that judgment without any additional knowledge other than base salary. Not to mention, that's probably a reflection of OP's current salary, and salaries have been rising with inflation, so I would imagine that the average over 30 years was more like $75-$100K tops. 30 years ago, PMs were lucky to make $30K entry level. I started as an entry-level developer myself about 25 years ago now, and I was making $30K at the time. Took me several years before I got into the mid-$50K range, etc. etc.Well you're not as special as the OP who is obviously not only legendarily talented, but also rich from such a high paying job and could retire now on the $4.35 million. The op would however need to budget to live on $145k / year for the next 30 years! If he's still alive after that well who knows? Heck, the OP would never have to worry about making ends meet on meager social security checks every month. I mean, how much money does the OP need anyway? Retire already!
You know absolutely nothing of OP's expenses, cost of living (can change dramatically depending on which part of the country you live in), number of children, possible medical issues, caring for elderly parents (contributing to them financially) ... and have not factored in that the 145K salary was not consistent for the 30 years, and 30 years ago was probably closer to 30K, perhaps averaging 75-100K over the years, not counting taxes, which would chew up a significant part of that. You have a real problem here making snap judgments while knowing almost nothing about OP's situation.You are projecting.
For all you know, OP could live in California, where decent homes cost a million dollars, have 12 children, 6 of whom are in college, and need automobiles, having to pay large medical bills that weren't covered by college, and paying for the care of parents who may need medical or nursing care. In other words, you know zilch and are making snap judgments.
You are projecting.Said the kettle to the pot.
I may be in a similar situation soon. Millions will be. All over the country. Big companies know the economy is going to shrink and they will cut jobs to save their bottom-line.Thank you for keeping an eye on the bigger picture.
God has a plan.
Well you're not as special as the OP who is obviously not only legendarily talented, but also rich from such a high paying job and could retire now on the $4.35 million. The op would however need to budget to live on $145k / year for the next 30 years! If he's still alive after that well who knows? Heck, the OP would never have to worry about making ends meet on meager social security checks every month. I mean, how much money does the OP need anyway? Retire already!The above quote demonstrates a capacity for elementary maths of 30 years x 145K per year, but not elementary common sense that OP wasn't making 145K each of those years from year 1, nor that OP stashed all that cash and somehow lived for 30 years miraculously without using any of it. Retire already from this argument!
If you give people advice in areas beyond your experience, then you aren't being helpful. Bad advice, even if given in charity, is still bad advice.This. Gold star comment. People who know what it's like to have to work 20 hour days staring at a computer screen in order to meet a deadline, and then be able to log out for a week to recuperate, IYKYK. But the moment the OP said "tech project mgmt" then basic Catholic humility means that anyone who has no knowledge of tech project mgmt should hold off on irrelevant attention-grabbing opinions. Do show concern and offer a prayer, then decently step aside.
This. Gold star comment. People who know what it's like to have to work 20 hour days staring at a computer screen in order to meet a deadline, and then be able to log out for a week to recuperate, IYKYK. But the moment the OP said "tech project mgmt" then basic Catholic humility means that anyone who has no knowledge of tech project mgmt should hold off on irrelevant attention-grabbing opinions. Do show concern and offer a prayer, then decently step aside.Please do share the "attention grabbing opinions". And do be ready to prove that they were "attention grabbing".
The above quote demonstrates a capacity for elementary maths of 30 years x 145K per year, but not elementary common sense that OP wasn't making 145K each of those years from year 1, nor that OP stashed all that cash and somehow lived for 30 years miraculously without using any of it. Retire already from this argument!
Actually, OP could have retired early with that income and number of years working. It's called reducing your living expenses.
Please do share the "attention grabbing opinions". And do be ready to prove that they were "attention grabbing".:jester::facepalm::fryingpan::pray:
:jester::facepalm::fryingpan::pray:I see you are unable/want to point out the so-called attention-grabbing posts, so you resort to making fun. Such Catholic humility!
The above quote demonstrates a capacity for elementary maths of 30 years x 145K per year, but not elementary common sense that OP wasn't making 145K each of those years from year 1, nor that OP stashed all that cash and somehow lived for 30 years miraculously without using any of it. Retire already from this argument!
I see you are unable/want to point out the so-called attention-grabbing posts, so you resort to making fun. Such Catholic humility!no just not submitting to un Catholic demands. when you say "jump" don't expect everybody to say "how high"
It is hoping beyond hope to expect that "trads" will cease being know-nothing know-it-alls.not "trads" just human, even if trads forget that they are no less human than non-trads.
This is truly an ignorant (and envious?) remark.:laugh2:
In the face of the perennial nursing shortage, layoff of massive numbers of nurses strikes me as a depopulationist move to enhance the lethality of the next wave bioweapon "pandemic."
Whether knowingly or not, the "government regulators, insurance companies, and so on" are not working at cross purposes, but are united in their (((satanic depopulationist agenda))).
So, it's an uncatholic demand to ask you to provide support for your opinion on what YOU think the motives of other posters are (ie. "attention-grabbing" posts)? Actually, what was "unCatholic" was your judging their internal forum.but you questioning my internal forum is allowed, two standards, got it. this isn't about your motives or your internal forum. the external forum proof of attention-grabbing behavior is the fact that people have to stop talking about what they're talking about because they have to answer YOUR demands and allegations over and over again instead of being left in peace to discuss the topic. bye.
In the face of the perennial nursing shortage, layoff of massive numbers of nurses strikes me as a depopulationist move to enhance the lethality of the next wave bioweapon "pandemic."Don't mean to derail but in Canada, amid this terrible health care shortage, a major hospital hired a liason nurse for the queers so they won't feel uncomfortable in the hospital setting.
but you questioning my internal forum is allowed, two standards, got it. this isn't about your motives or your internal forum. the external forum proof of attention-grabbing behavior is the fact that people have to stop talking about what they're talking about because they have to answer YOUR demands and allegations over and over again instead of being left in peace to discuss the topic. bye.I never questioned your internal forum (but I think you know that). I asked you to cough up evidence that people posted to grab attention. Because you can't/refuse to do so is not my fault. As far as anyone can tell in the external forum, those posters did not post to grab attention.
Actually, OP could have retired early with that income and number of years working. It's called reducing your living expenses.You're an idiot.
I am re-porting this in hopes that the OP can openly name the major healthcare provider.
I am re-porting this in hopes that the OP can openly name the major healthcare provider.