JohnGrey
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| theology101 said: |
Allow me to further investigate the facts. According to the ADL (http://www.adl.org/holocaust/response.asp#2), at Auschwitz, 20-30 people were executed at a time in the gas chambers- we can assume it took about 20 minutes to get them herded in, undressed (for some reason), and killed. We will also assume 25 people at a time. Please look up the floor plans of this particular shower room. The room is on the ground floor. The only exit from the room is through a door at the end where the dead would have to have been dragged out one at a time, after the gas had dissipated, of course. From there, the dead would have been dragged down a hall to an elevator which went to the crematoria on the second floor (German engineering must have been worse in those days). We can assume it took about 15 minutes to do this. Then the five ovens would be used to burn one body at a time. Assuming even just ten minutes to burn one body, that's 50 minutes to burn all 25 people. Those would have to be burned before more bodies were brought in, because the room was pretty small. So, that's 85 minutes total, an hour and 25 minutes, to kill and dispose of just 25 Jews. Now, assuming that this is kept up 24 hours a day every single day, that is 480 Jews a day that can be gassed and burned, assuming, again, non-stop work. 480 Jews a day times 365 days a year equals 175,200 Jews gassed and killed in one year. Multiply by the five years of the war and that is 876,000 Jews, less than a million, killed at Oswiecim in all of the war. That is 24 hours a day seven days a week 52 weeks a year gassing and burning. Man those Nazis sure had a lot of time on their hands. (Keep in mind I didn't even allow time for the gas to dissipate between the gassing and the dragging out of the bodies, so the actual number killed in this anner would have been much less.) Hey guys, it's called Mathematics. Learn it- the Jews know it, and they hope that you don't. |
And in all likelihood, it would take even much longer than that. The gas that was utilized by the Nazi regime for chemical execution was Zyklon B, which is prussic acid held in a substrate. Optimal time of fatality with prussic acid is approximately 20 - 30 minutes, and that's assuming a single person (not dozens) with 150mg per cubic meter concentration in the air (a not inconsiderable concentration when one realizes that they would've had to have enough on hand to do it repeatedly in chambers that were measured to have been a approximately 30 square meters), and proper ventilation of a normal room can take up to 10 hours.
Also add to the fact that even at optimum temperature of 1200 - 1400 degrees, total cremation of a human body takes approximately 2 - 2.5 hours. No, the math doesn't bare out the figures so often quoted.
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| Posted May 19, 2012, 11:09 pm |
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Neil Obstat
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| theology101 said: | | Capt McQuigg said: | Bishop Williamson didn't deny the "holocaust", he merely questioned the "Six Million" figure.
Is that the same thing?
I mean, if someone went around saying "seven" million died, would he be a denier?
And why would an erroneous opinion about a secular issue be cause for excommunication? |
Not the same at all. There is nothing wrong with denying the six million figure because it is a fact that not nearly that many even existed in Europe at the time. The 1934 World Encyclopedia placed the population of Jews in Europe at 3.5 million. The alleged number of lost Jews has varied from 48 million by rabbi Dr. Miklos Nyszli in his book "Behind Humanity", to 5,370,000 by Lucy Dawidowicz. According to the Jews themselves, 4,344,371 Jews survived the concentration camps ("The Canadian Jewish News", Jan 1, 1981). According to "The Dissolution of the Eastern European Jewry" by Walter N. Sanning, a book praised by Jews the world over for its accuracy, there were about 16 million Jews in the world at the beginning of WWII. 5 million in the USA, 5.3 million in the USSR, 0.2 million in Palestine, 2.9 million in Germany, and 2.4 million in the rest of the world. According to the same book, at the end of the war, there were 14 million Jews in the world. That's 2 million dead. A sad thing indeed, but so are the deaths of millions more non-Jews.
Besides all that, the Jews themselves have often said the six million figure is much too high (holocaust museum, for instance)- but the number is symbolic, it's from the OT and they need it to be six million to claim prophetic completion.
Besides all that, the war only lasted five years. It is easy to kill millions in bombings and combat over the course of five years, but take a look at the supposed "gas chambers" in places like Auschwitz, and the one-man ovens for cremating the dead (disease was rampant in the relocation camps), and honestly try to imagine the work it would take to gas and kill even a million people over a five year period- it's impossible.
"Before WWII, there were approximately 4 million Jews in all of Europe. After the war, approximately 5 million 'Holocaust survivors' were collecting reparation money from the German government. Sadly, the remaining 6 million died." |
Yes, the numbers are political footballs to be kicked around for sport. For those who desire truth and facts of history, there is no satisfaction in the insane "Holocaust Denier" doctrine, for there, facts of history are not important. All that matters is OBEDIENCE TO THE MSM FALSE GOD. And resistance to the fantasy is punishable by law, whatever the fantasy happens to be at the moment. Right now it's the Shoah (erstwhile Holocaust, but terms change just as fast as the fantasy changes). ................
Sorry I've been busy. These replies are all great posts, and I'd like to touch on each one of them. It's great to see such a group of people able to THINK without using the blinders of the MSM false god!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone can find "6 million" in the Old Testament, please let me know.
FYI I just did a quick Google search for six million old testament, and the only hits were 6 million copies sold! I can't find it anywhere. I've heard that figure is from the TALMUD (not to be confused with the Torah = the first 5 books of the OT -- not to be confused with Tora! Tora! Tora! a movie about Pearl Harbor 1941 HAHAHA).
Additionally, I got it on good authority (but I don't recall who it was, shame on me!) that 6 million was a figure the Zionists were kicking around AFTER WORLD WAR ONE, when they tried to get their Holocaust program off the ground, but there were not enough "takers" to their agenda in the years before WWII, and therefore, the FIRST STEP of the plan did not take root, which is why they did not advance to the SECOND STEP or the introduction of the term "Holocaust" regarding WWI. Some clues point to how WWII was in some degree instigated in the first place so as to have a SECOND RUN at the big plan, and see if they could pull off acceptance of the 6 million figure, once again. Therefore, before and during WWII no mention of the 6 million prophetic figure was made. Only AFTER the war, when Israel was to be re-established as a country laid out over Palestine like so much Astro Turf, did the 6 million figure get "resurrected" without any reference to the erstwhile WWI attempts. Some believe (apparently) that historical revisionists went back over the WWI references and scrubbed the texts somehow, to squelch research on the topic. You won't find it using Google, but that's possibly due to electronic suppression of the searches. The point is, 6 million was established by frequent repetition by the MSM, movies, talk shows, comedians, periodicals, PSA speeches and social service organizations. In the USA, especially, sympathy for the oppressed Jews ran high, and America was the lone stronghold for alliance with the fledgling Israel. Americans have an inherent sense of good will and charitable assistance of foreign "little guys," and this characteristic was tapped to the maximum by promoters of Israel aid.
One post above, by theology101 10:32 am, mentions why Protestants obstinately adhere to the false notion that Jews and Christians worship the same God, etc. Wonderful logic there. It all comes down to REALLY believing the divinity of Christ, or not. As with so many other doctrines, Modernism has introduced a kind of micro-slicing of the principles, such that a dogma like that can be dissected into many shades of gray, and different people are okay with professing any one of the multitudes of permutations possible. This is why "Yes, Christ is God, but _____," fill in the blank, is a heresy, for no smallest portion of a dogma is ever negotiable.
This is why we have to hold fast to the defined dogmas of the Church in every detail, because nothing doctrinal is ever negotiable. The article linked on CNS describes Kurt Cardinal Koch (he doesn't use that name for whatever reason, but I suspect he doesn't appreciate being called "The curt Cardinal") pronouncing objective error. The fact is, there is absolutely NOTHING defined in Vatican II. The fact is, that previously defined dogmas that are repeated in Vatican II were defined beforehand, and would be just as doctrinal WITHOUT having been mentioned in that newest council. The fact is, by objective heresy contained in legitimate (albeit liberal) interpretation of ambiguous Vat. II documents, there are parts of it that CANNOT be accepted or believed by Catholics, and therefore, the Kurt Cardinal is lying when he says that ALL of the documents are required for Catholics to believe.
There was no condemnation of any error in Vatican II and by that one fact alone, no definition was made, no infallibility established, and no assent is required of the Faithful. Period.
Note: I would have copied the entire article here, but I have seen that nobody
else has done so with CNS articles of any stripe, and therefore, I am concerned
that perhaps it is CathInfo policy not to offend the copyright claim of CNS, to wit:
| Quote: | Copyright (c) 2012 Catholic News Service/USCCB. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise
distributed.
CNS · 3211 Fourth St NE · Washington DC 20017 · 202.541.3250 |
I don't want to make trouble for the forum or for Matthew, but I would like to post the article if that's okay. I'll wait for an answer from someone on this.
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| Posted May 20, 2012, 12:07 am |
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