PenitentWoman
Reputation: 1004
(Likers: 0 / Critics: 0)
Posts: 790
|
| CathMomof7 said: |
Instead, I go to the back and stand or take them outside for a swift spank on the bottom and a reminder of where we are. They learn quickly. |
Can I ask what age you had to start spanking at?
I am really not sure I will ever be able spank for discipline even though I fully agree that it is sometimes needed. 
I really think I'll do just fine with general order and obedience. I've already been successful with some very gentle blanket training when I take my daughter to work in our garden, and the kids I babysit listen far better to me than their own mother because of the structure I give them. I just worry about hard discipline because I know I'll wimp out and feel too bad about causing physical pain.
Maybe by the time it becomes an issue I'll have someone else to defer to for this particular part of discipline too. My approach may just be too soft if I face serious defiance from a child. 
| Matthew said: | | At the very least he needs to "get over it" as you say, and realize that Mass isn't all about NIFs (Nice Internal Feelings -- (c) Bishop Williamson) but rather the salvation of souls WHICH INCLUDES new people to your parish. Those children and parents have souls, too, which an older parishioner should be more concerned about than how much he "gets out" of Mass -- which isn't grace at all but just emotion and feelings. |
Very good and reassuring points.
|
.........................
~For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. ~ Romans 8:24-25
|
| Posted Jul 30, 2012, 8:57 pm |
|
Ignored by: 0
|
|
|
CathMomof7
Reputation: 877
(Likers: 0 / Critics: 0)
Posts: 745
|
| Matthew said: | | CathMomof7 said: |
It is not very attractive, in my opinion, when young families are new to the TLM and people treat them rudely because they have children.
Our very first TLM, our daughter was 2. She was a very quiet little girl. Never made a peep at home nor at Mass. But she got up a lot and moved around. This annoyed the old man in front of us and when she accidentally touched his back, he turned around with pure venom and told us to go home and never come back with our unruly children. Of course he said this quietly through his clinched teeth. But it left me this impression that traditional Catholics were snotty, impatient, and isolated. We never went back to that church, ever.
There is a balance. Yes, parents need to teach their children proper behavior at Mass. Yes, when their children get loud they should take them out, discipline them appropriately, and return. But older people should also get a clue. The Mass is not about you and your "peaceful experience." It's about Our Lord and His Sacrifice. Yes, reverence is absolutely required. But rudeness is neither appreciated nor helpful.
|
I heartily agree!
It makes you wonder why that man was so upset -- was he guilty of something when he was younger that caused his current aversion to children? Did he sow his wild oats when he was younger? Did he get a vasectomy when he was tired of having kids? Or maybe he raised his children in such a way that they're not giving him any grandchildren now, and he feels somewhat responsible. Or maybe he gave in to the modern world and practiced NFP needlessly and only had 3 children. As you know, having only 3 children makes it very easy to be lonely as an empty-nester as it's very common for one or two children to move to distant parts of the country.
Seriously, whatever the reason, the issue has to be with him. There is probably a good cause to feel sorry for him. Nevertheless, it is still disgusting behavior for a so-called Traditional Catholic.
At the very least he needs to "get over it" as you say, and realize that Mass isn't all about NIFs (Nice Internal Feelings -- (c) Bishop Williamson) but rather the salvation of souls WHICH INCLUDES new people to your parish. Those children and parents have souls, too, which an older parishioner should be more concerned about than how much he "gets out" of Mass -- which isn't grace at all but just emotion and feelings.
And need I point out that if you, your husband, and children committed ONE MORE SIN because you stopped attending Mass there at that time, or suffered any spiritual harm at all, he will have to answer for it at his Judgment.
I'd say what you described was a grave sin against charity. Funny that this old man wanted to "be alone with Jesus" to pray, concentrate on the Mass, etc., but he seems to have no virtue and can't see the forest for the trees. His virtue is an illusion. How often are we deceived as to our level of virtue...
|
You know, I have never really thought about the questions you posed.
I remember this man was about 65-70 and all alone with his Missal. I didn't even know what a Missal was, then.
But his face was all distorted and dark. I think it really scandalized us. We were struggling so hard in the NO and were trying to leave. This was a diocesan TLM, because we didn't know about any other places to go. I remember 3 things about it: that man was very uncharitable, the regular NO parishioners were very impatient because the NO Mass was immediately after. They kept filling up in the vestibule and were really loud talking and laughing. And the priest that day gave an amazing sermon on living together before marriage, contraception, and homosexuality. I had never heard a priest give a sermon like that.
Perhaps, though, Matthew, the Lord allowed this to happen for us. We probably would have continued to go there for awhile and just might be stuck straddling the NO fence. I'm grateful in some ways, because it forced us to look elsewhere for tradition.
Since we have been attending our chapel the last two years, we have been so blessed to learn so much from our priests, especially Fr. Hewko. We have grown to love so many people and the Church and the Mass. Our whole lives have changed. We have also been blessed to discover that there are many, many traditional Catholics in our area attending independent chapels. We have met some really holy people.
I don't know if that would have happen at the diocesan level. Just my thoughts.
On a side note, I believe those people who limited their family size on purpose, for whatever reason, are suffering in numerous ways, as are their children. Not only are the children spread all across the nation, but when they get old there is no one to care for them. They have no grandchildren to enjoy. Nothing. They have empty lives. It is truly sorrowful.
|
|
| Posted Aug 1, 2012, 3:43 pm |
|
Ignored by: 0
|
|
|
