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Author Topic: Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney  (Read 4607 times)

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Offline orestesbrownson

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Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
« on: December 04, 2016, 04:14:51 PM »
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  • A two-plus hour talk given by Bishop Clarence Kelly, SSPV, on Fr. Leonard Feeney:


    Offline MarylandTrad

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 05:41:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: orestesbrownson
    A two-plus hour talk given by Bishop Clarence Kelly, SSPV, on Fr. Leonard Feeney:


    "Bishop" Kelly was taught in the SSPX seminary that man can be saved in any religion. "Bishop" Kelly believes that Jєωs, Heretics, Muslims, etc. can all be saved outside of the Catholic faith. The only people who are definitely condemned according to "Bishop" Kelly are Catholics like Fr. Feeney who believe in dogmas in the sense that they have been defined.

    "Bishop" Kelly claims to have been consecrated a bishop by Bp. Alfred Mendez. Here are some facts about Bp. Mendez:

    Quote
    In 1960, Mendez became first bishop in world to make a Cursillo "retreat." (Cursillo = political-religious movement which originated in Spanish-speaking countries before Vatican II. A leftist/modernist operation which used Communist mind-control/indoctrination techniques on participants: sleep deprivation, exhaustion, emotionalism, public confession of sins, group criticism of individual participants. Also notorious for gross liturgical abuses. Those involved in Cursillo became leaders of modernist program during and after Vatican II.)

    As a new bishop in 1961, Mendez "began the Cursillo movement in Puerto Rico, and he made the Diocese of Arecibo its pioneer."
    Mendez promoted other liberal initiatiives which would "laicize" Church and undercut priest's role. From beginning of Vatican II, "he dedicated himself to the restoration of the permanent [married] diaconate," and he "opened horizons and positions for the laity well before Vatican II ended."
    He was member of CELAM, leftist South American bishops' organization.

    Was Bp. Mendez a traditionalist after he retired?

    1. Did weekend help-outs & weddings for Novus Ordo.
    2. Raised funds for ultra-Modernist Notre Dame University, celebrated public Masses there.
    3. In 1981-82, ordained priests at Notre Dame using new rite.
    4. Said mutilated Paul VI version of traditional Mass (parts missing), but even this only because of influence of his traditionalist housekeeper.
    5. Never took public stand against Novus Ordo and Vatican II.
    6. Is never once known to have offered old Mass in public at traditional chapel.
    7. Promoted compromise initiatives to pull traditional Catholics into Novus Ordo church: Indult Masses, special Tridentine Ordinariate under JP2, and Fraternity of St. Peter.
    8. At same time, also encouraged seminarians to join "conservative" Novus Ordo organizations such as Legionaires of Christ.
    9. Dressed in sport jacket, shirt with open collar and dark trousers when visiting the laity.
    10. Said he had to dress incognito because the mob was after him.
    11. In 1985 observed 50th ordination anniversary by being "principal concelebrant" of a Novus Ordo at Notre Dame.


    "The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a man who thinks other people can get along without It. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who thinks he needs It but someone else does not. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who offers others any charity ahead of this Charity of the Bread of Life." -Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life


    Offline MarylandTrad

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 09:31:16 PM »
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  • "Bishop" Kelly acknowledges that Fr. Feeney believed that the desire for baptism could justify a man. He then goes on to say that it is a grave error for someone to deny that an unbaptized man who dies in the state of justification cannot be saved. Fr. Feeney, as St. Augustine, did not believe that any such souls in the New Law exist.

    Bread of Life
    Quote
    Q. What are we to say to those who believe there are such souls?
    A. We must say to them that they are making reason prevail over Faith, and the laws of probability over the Providence of God.


    St. Augustine taught that all of the predestined will receive Baptism:
       
    Quote
    Perish the thought that a person predestined to eternal life could be allowed to end this life without the sacrament of the mediator.


    Acts of the Apostles 13:48
       
    Quote
    And the Gentiles hearing it, were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to life everlasting, believed.


    Fr. Paul Sullivan in his The Secret of Confession, relates the following stories about three infamous men who died without the sacraments:
    Quote
        D’Alembert wished to be reconciled with God on his deathbed, but Condorcet, his false friend, saw to it that the priest could not get access to the dying man, and so he died with bitter remorse and appalling fears.
       Diderot showed signs of repentance and had even spoken a few times with a priest. His friends, alarmed at his change of views and fearful lest his conversion might bring ridicule upon their philosophy, hurried him away to the country where the priest could not visit him.
       Voltaire, in the last days of his life, sought for the consolation of Confession, but once again cruel cynical friends denied him this supreme consolation. And it is said that he died in despair. He had never been sincere in his attacks on religion, and he came to know, when it was too late, that “God is not mocked.” (Gal. 6:7).


    Would "Bishop" Kelly say that these souls were saved by confession of desire? There are countless stories about the providence of God arranging for men of good will to receive the sacraments before death, even in situations where it seemed humanly impossible for them to be reached, and this for sacraments which are only necessary by a necessity of precept and not of means. Baptism is necessary by a necessity of means. If a soul dies without Baptism it is because they were observed and found wanting. It is a just judgement of God, but could also be an act of mercy in the sense that God foresaw that if they were to have been baptized, they would not have persevered and their torments in Hell would be all the more terrible due to their having the character on their soul. The punishment in Hell for those like "Bishop" Kelly who have received the sacraments so many times, but who esteem them so lightly and think that men can be saved without them, will be truly frightening. These men will wish that they never received the sacraments.
       
    "Bishop" Kelly quotes St. Thomas as an authority for the “three baptisms,” but he hypocritically rejects what St. Thomas taught on the necessity of Explicit Faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation for salvation.

    Quote
    As the mystery of the Incarnation was believed from the beginning, so, also, was it necessary to believe the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity; for the mystery of the Incarnation cannot be explicitly believed without faith in the Most Holy Trinity, because the mystery of the Incarnation teaches that the Son of God took to himself a human body and soul by the power of the Holy Ghost. Hence, as the mystery of the Incarnation was explicitly believed by the teachers of religion, and implicitly by the rest of the people, so, also, was the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity explicitly believed by the teachers of religion and implicitly by the rest of the people. But in the New Law it must be explicitly believed by all." (De Fide, Q ii., art. vii. et viii.)


    He deals with the holy Council of Trent in the same hypocritical manner. He cites the Council's teaching that the desire for baptism can justify a man (which Fr. Feeney believed), but he rejects the Council's teaching that Baptism is necessary for salvation.

    Session Seven on the Sacraments
    Quote
    CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.

    "The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a man who thinks other people can get along without It. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who thinks he needs It but someone else does not. The Blessed Eucharist means nothing to a communicant who offers others any charity ahead of this Charity of the Bread of Life." -Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life

    Offline Stubborn

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 04:57:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: MarylandTrad

    "Bishop" Kelly was taught in the SSPX seminary that man can be saved in any religion. "Bishop" Kelly believes that Jєωs, Heretics, Muslims, etc. can all be saved outside of the Catholic faith. The only people who are definitely condemned according to "Bishop" Kelly are Catholics like Fr. Feeney who believe in dogmas in the sense that they have been defined.


    Something to note is that +Kelly, like +Sanborn, +Dolan, Fr. Cekada etc., all attended NO seminary and got the modernist priestly formation prior to them attending the SSPX seminary. So yes, while the SSPX teaches a 'conservative' version of universal salvation, +Kelly's formation is rooted in the greater, modernist indoctrination.

    This might be of interest to some, here is a sermon from Fr. Wathen about the dogma. Nothing earth shattering, just 20 minutes of simple, clear teaching on the dogma.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline tdrev123

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 11:27:30 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: MarylandTrad

    "Bishop" Kelly was taught in the SSPX seminary that man can be saved in any religion. "Bishop" Kelly believes that Jєωs, Heretics, Muslims, etc. can all be saved outside of the Catholic faith. The only people who are definitely condemned according to "Bishop" Kelly are Catholics like Fr. Feeney who believe in dogmas in the sense that they have been defined.


    Something to note is that +Kelly, like +Sanborn, +Dolan, Fr. Cekada etc., all attended NO seminary and got the modernist priestly formation prior to them attending the SSPX seminary. So yes, while the SSPX teaches a 'conservative' version of universal salvation, +Kelly's formation is rooted in the greater, modernist indoctrination.

    This might be of interest to some, here is a sermon from Fr. Wathen about the dogma. Nothing earth shattering, just 20 minutes of simple, clear teaching on the dogma.


    Most of them were ordained after only one or two years at Econe.  I think for Kelly it was one, cekada it was 2.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 11:03:41 AM »
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  • then-Father Kelly reportedly refused the Sacraments to a "Feeneyite" on their deathbed (heard this from another priest who knew him).

    Yet, at the same time, he had no problem working with Bishop Mendez's "housekeeper", Natalie White, who was an open "Feeneyite".

    Bishop Kelly and most of the SSPV priests are hopeless Fifties-ists, believing that the Church was in a perfect state back then ... except of course they reject the Pius XII Holy Week Rites.

    So they pick and chose what they want to believe.

    Offline Matto

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 12:50:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Bishop Kelly and most of the SSPV priests are hopeless Fifties-ists, believing that the Church was in a perfect state back then ...

    Do they really believe that the Church was in good shape in the 50's? I do not agree with that, though I was not alive to experience it firsthand. I believe that most of the people and priests and bishops had already lost the faith and it was because of this that God allowed Vatican II and the new Mass as chastisement.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Prayerful

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 01:21:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Bishop Kelly and most of the SSPV priests are hopeless Fifties-ists, believing that the Church was in a perfect state back then ...

    Do they really believe that the Church was in good shape in the 50's? I do not agree with that, though I was not alive to experience it firsthand. I believe that most of the people and priests and bishops had already lost the faith and it was because of this that God allowed Vatican II and the new Mass as chastisement.


    All those Cardinals and Bishops, most probably Pius XII appointments, largely just rolled over at Vatican II. A fairly small Pact of the Catacombs element knew they were pushing at an open door. Even if Paul VI retreated to passivity, like he often did, rather than give support as he did, Modernists could probably still have triumphed. Archbishop Lefebvre was part of a decently large element, Coetus Internationalis Patrum, but they still a minority and most went with the flow, particularly as they noticed it had implicit Papal blessing.


    Offline Arvinger

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 06:16:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto

    Do they really believe that the Church was in good shape in the 50's? I do not agree with that, though I was not alive to experience it firsthand. I believe that most of the people and priests and bishops had already lost the faith and it was because of this that God allowed Vatican II and the new Mass as chastisement.


    Well, Bishop Sanborn wrote:

    "He [Pope Pius XII] left the Church in a flourishing and thoroughly intact condition, with the one exception that he failed to root out the clergy who would cause the future destruction."
    http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/SCSF%20November%202013.pdf

    Most of the traditionalist priests who speak on the matter of EENS do not seem to see the connection between Suprema Haec Sacra, growing modernism and Vatican II ecclesiology, primarily because they believe that souls can be saved in any religion.

    Offline tdrev123

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #9 on: December 07, 2016, 06:52:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Arvinger
    Quote from: Matto

    Do they really believe that the Church was in good shape in the 50's? I do not agree with that, though I was not alive to experience it firsthand. I believe that most of the people and priests and bishops had already lost the faith and it was because of this that God allowed Vatican II and the new Mass as chastisement.


    Well, Bishop Sanborn wrote:

    "He [Pope Pius XII] left the Church in a flourishing and thoroughly intact condition, with the one exception that he failed to root out the clergy who would cause the future destruction."
    http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/SCSF%20November%202013.pdf

    Most of the traditionalist priests who speak on the matter of EENS do not seem to see the connection between Suprema Haec Sacra, growing modernism and Vatican II ecclesiology, primarily because they believe that souls can be saved in any religion.


    Clearly he has never read the Undermining of the Catholic Church.  That quote made  me laugh. :laugh1:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #10 on: December 07, 2016, 06:58:59 PM »
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  • And yet Bishop Sanborn fails to mention the Holy Week Rites of Pius XII which he rejects as contaminated with modernism.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #11 on: December 07, 2016, 07:01:54 PM »
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  • Even in the early part of the century St. Pius X stated that the Church had been so thoroughly compromised that "humanly speaking," it was "finished".

    Benedict XV came after him and immediately banished many of St. Pius X's staunchest anti-modernist prelates and disbanded the mechanisms St. Pius X had put into place to combat the modernism (e.g. the Sodalitium Pianum).  It was all downhill from there.


    Offline Matto

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #12 on: December 07, 2016, 07:08:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: tdrev123
    Clearly he has never read the Undermining of the Catholic Church.  That quote made  me laugh. :laugh1:

    Yes I have read that book. I have heard some trads condemn it because it makes Pope Pius XII out to be a liberal and not the hero they believe he was. And they say it doesn't have footnotes so it is therefore untrustworthy.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline tdrev123

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    Bp Clarence Kelly talk on Fr. Feeney
    « Reply #13 on: December 07, 2016, 07:39:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: tdrev123
    Clearly he has never read the Undermining of the Catholic Church.  That quote made  me laugh. :laugh1:

    Yes I have read that book. I have heard some trads condemn it because it makes Pope Pius XII out to be a liberal and not the hero they believe he was. And they say it doesn't have footnotes so it is therefore untrustworthy.


    Even if only half of the things are true it still shows that the church and its popes were plagued with modernism.  And yes it doesn't have footnotes but there are like 100 books, interviews, and Mary Martinez's personal encounters.  And she even put her phone number at the end of the book so you could call her about her source for a particular part of the book.  
    Is some of the book hearsay and conjecture, yes, but that is all the evidence there is because modernists are good at covering their tracks.