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Author Topic: novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?  (Read 999 times)

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Offline TCat

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novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
« on: August 24, 2013, 08:29:50 AM »
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    • I read that in the new ordination rite of Paul 6 there were changes made to the prayers said at ordination which render them invalid. These were ones where prayers referring to the sacrificial nature of the priesthood (mass) were removed, so rendering it similar to the Anglican rite.

    But if the prayers are only concerning saying mass, cant we still go to a novus ordo priest to get confessions?

    Im not making a statement with this question, I am looking for information on the subject. This is not about excommunication for heresy or the opnion of Saint Bellarmine who did not have his opinions enshrined in cannon law.
    So quotes from Saints is not what I seek at this time.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 08:58:46 AM »
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    • Its not just the rite of ordination but the new Episcopal rite.  If the bishop ordaining the priest isn't a bishop it doesn't matter what rite of ordination is used.

    From phone
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline TCat

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 09:16:10 AM »
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    • I see, so what is wrong with the consecration rite of modern bishops? (I want to know) Why are they not bishops?
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 09:55:58 AM »
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    • tcat, being on my phone I can't link or explain well but there is a change in form that creates a positive doubt for many traditional Catholics.  Fr Cekada has written extensively on the topic and answered common rebuttals.  You can google it. Otherwise I'll link to it when I get home.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 02:52:01 PM »
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    • TCat, here is Fr Cekada's main article contra the 1968 Episcopal rite:

    Absolutely Null and Utterly Void

    Here is the Angelus Press rebuttal of Fr C's claims:

    Why the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration is Valid

    It is worth noting that I have heard the original article (written by Fr. Pierre-Marie, O.P., of the Dominicans of Avrille) is titled 'Why the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration May be valid.  I do not know this to be the case as I know little French and have not seen the 'original.'

    And here is Fr Cekada's rebuttal to Fr. Pierre-Marie, O.P.:

    Still Null and Void
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline OHCA

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 03:37:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: TCat
    . . .

    But if the prayers are only concerning saying mass, cant we still go to a novus ordo priest to get confessions?
    . . .


    If they can't say Mass and concecrate bread and wine, then they aren't priests. Not for saying Mass, nor any other purpose that requires one to be a priest.
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    Offline TCat

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 04:22:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: TCat
    . . .

    But if the prayers are only concerning saying mass, cant we still go to a novus ordo priest to get confessions?
    . . .


    If they can't say Mass and concecrate bread and wine, then they aren't priests. Not for saying Mass, nor any other purpose that requires one to be a priest.


    What about if they have been ordained, maybe not up to the level of priest, but to the level of deacon? Deacons hear confessions...
    Or are the rites for deacons invalid aswell? :stare:
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    Offline Matto

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 04:25:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: TCat
    Deacons hear confessions...

    No. Deacons do not hear confessions.
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    Offline OHCA

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    novus ordo priests make hear valid confessions?
    « Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 04:43:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: TCat
    ...... Deacons hear confessions...


    This isn't even permitted in NO.  It's a serious transgression if this has occurred anywhere.  It strikes me as being so outlandish of a comment that it makes me wonder if you're even Catholic--even NO/conciliarist.  If you're not and you're here to learn, I think that's good.  But I think you've held yourself out to be Catholic.

    I'm not stating my doubts to start a big argument.  But I have spent most of my life in NO/conciliarism, and I never saw this nor heard any mention of this even one time.  So I don't think it would be appropriate for fellow forum members to dismiss this as simply another abuse of conciliarism--it makes me doubt that you're who you say you are and, frankly, your purpose of being here.
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