SaintBasil
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| Sigismund said: | .
How many of them were still trowing flowers six months later? |
Ukraine Site discusses Germany liberating Ukraine from Bolshevik Jew Marxists
http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20044/58
Ukraine people were NOT cheering en masse at the Russian'Comrades' when they took it over, then, or any time in the next 60 years it was occupied..
Germans were loved by the Ukraines, Church bells rang again, Mass could be said, and they fought for Freedom from Marxism.
Ukrainian people overwelmingly supported Germany and Hitler, not Russia.
With Germany it was Liberation, with Russia it was Occupatin.
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| Posted Jul 9, 2012, 4:05 pm |
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brotherfrancis75
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@Mr. Saint Basil/Traditional Guy20 and Associates: Thank you for the defense. In our day seriousness may well be the highest Catholic virtue!
@Mr. Raoul 76: You seem to be sincere, so arguments ad hominem aren't the best way to refute my logic. How can I include "non-Catholics" among my list of historic heroes? The true answer is pretty simple: If we consider brotherhood in Christ to be an essentially SACRAMENTAL state, then there is no cause to exclude men like Napoleon I or the late German Chancellor from membership in the Roman Catholic Church. Their Catholic SACRAMENTAL status was impeccable.
If on the other hand our classification of who are brothers in Christ is essentially one of NON-SACRAMENTAL media spin and popularity (in short, politics), then our sense of who is and isn't Catholic becomes arbitrary indeed. There is a revealing expression "conservative grace." This is an heretical idea that grace and membership in our Holy Roman and Apostolic Church is essentially a matter of POLITICAL agreements, not sacramental status. So, although Napoleon and other such soldiers have perfectly respectable status in the eyes of the Church of Rome, they can't be Catholics because they lack the "political grace" of having the right media reputation and mass popularity with what's in fact "the Left," including the pseudo-Anarchist Neo-Liberal Bolshevism of the existing Republican Party and its global extensions.
Basically do we see our religion as sacramental or political? If it's sacramental, then we must SUFFER one another. Then Napoleon and Hitler are our brothers-in-Christ and you must SUFFER them. And perhaps I you as well! If Christian brotherhood were anything easy Our Lord would not have had to put so much emphasis on it.
Then there's the matter that I included King George and George Washington in my list. This also reflects my SACRAMENTAL view of our religious membership. Evidently Washington was baptized into the one true Church not long before his death and, as Catholics, we should respect our Catholic sacraments and welcome the late President Washington into our ranks, essentially for SACRAMENTAL reasons. As for rare and extremely "border-line" nominal Protestants like King George III or Frederick the Great, they apparently EARNED their Catholic status (since good works do matter in our salvation) through their stunningly great Roman achievements that did so much to advance the Roman Papacy. Their SACRAMENT of baptism evidently earned them SACRAMENTAL grace and a perhaps marginal or at least highly unusual membership in the Church of Rome. (In my view the same went for Queen Victoria!)
So if we carefully reject Modernism we should have a sacramental view of Catholic identity. Even the very best of nominal Protestants are very likely somewhat "odd-ball" Catholics DUE TO THEIR SACRAMENTAL BAPTISMS. And that idea should help us to understand that those with completely normal and standard Catholic sacramental status (most notably Napoleon and Hitler) are Roman Catholics because membership in the Roman Catholic Church is SACRAMENTAL, not political.
If the soldierly behaviors of Napoleon and Hitler (or Pope Julius II) were non-Catholic, then our greatest writers and artists must also be non-Catholics. The music of, for example, Joseph Hayden or the paintings of Rubens are often just as militaristic and righteous as the severe actions of Napoleon or Hitler that you imagine must exclude them from the Mystical Body of Christ. Simply because we abhor another man's politics has nothing to do with his membership in our Holy Church!
Apparently you dismiss my standard historic Catholic view of our sacraments as something childish and nonsensical. You appear to think that media approval and public opinion are much mightier for our salvation than the sacraments of the Church of Rome. If such is the case, then I fear you would be a Modernist and the victim of the, in fact, childish and nonsensical rationalism of our age.
But if, as I hope, such is not the case, then your lack of charity for those whose politics differs from your own is a dangerous emotionalism that you, I humbly suggest, must work on. If the Good Lord tells us to pray for our enemies, how much more we should pray for our fellow Catholics with whom we have profound political disagreements.
Because the only true salvation is SACRAMENTAL, not politcal, in nature. Neither Napoleon nor Hitler were heretics or violators of our Catholic sacramental economy. Therefore they are our BROTHERS-IN-CHRIST! Our religion is not whichever politics makes us feel good. It is the SACRAMENTAL order established on earth by God Almighty in the form of His Son Our Lord Jesus Christ.
That ALONE makes men our Brothers-in-Christ.
(And if we think Napoleon and Hitler were the greatest Catholic sinners, then we should pray ESPECIALLY for their sakes. Then we should hope MOST OF ALL that their souls now grace the Heavenly New Jerusalem!)
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| Posted Jul 10, 2012, 11:32 pm |
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InstaurareEcclesiam
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The original topic is total NONSENSE.
The Nazi government of Germany in 1935 legalized abortion, but only eugenecist abortion.
Of course the Nazi scientists and demographers were wise enough to realize that children and youth are the riches of every healthy society, especially for an advanced scientific, industrial and political-military elite country as Nazi Germany was. From a secular point of view.
In 1935 in a Gesetzesnovelle to the Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Harmed Offspring, the eugenic abortion was adviced, made legal.
Eugenicist abortion also became legal in Sweden and Poland in 1938, after the German example.
Only the Catholic Church protested in 1935.
Abortion for Jewish or non-Germanic single women was encouraged and also legal after 1938.
So individualistic abortion was not present in Germany officially (although it did occur, as a doctor could claim eugenics reason for the abortion), but collectivist racially motivated abortions were.
But of course the Nazi govt. supported large families and not the death of its people, as is happening now due to contraceptives, late marriage, lack of financial means, materialism and large-scale abortions in Germany, legal since 1976. In the years between 1949 until 1964, the German population grew explosively despite the losses of WW2. Large Catholic and Lutheran families. Rebuilding West Germany.
Even communist GDR, so-called East Germany, had higher birth rates until 1980.
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| Posted Jul 11, 2012, 10:28 am |
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