theology101
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| Nadir said: | | Telesphorus said: | | theology101 said: | | That sounds.... odd. |
You need to understand that they are heretics outside the Church, all going to receive Communion when they are materially unworthy, you are confirming them in their errors by participating. |
Well said, Tele.
I am not terribly well informed but my understanding is that the Orthodox are heretical in at least three teachings of the One True Church: Purgatory, divorce, and in their understanding of the Trinity. |
The filioque is the one I am somewhat familiar with. I guess in their creed they say the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father only, while ours says and from the Son. I guess that saying just from the Father implies an inequality, or perhaps it is their claim that saying also from the Son implies inequality, as though Christ is somehow more important than the Spirit. I dunno it's pretty confusing to me. Crazy how one word can cause so many problems.
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| Posted Jul 5, 2012, 7:08 am |
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Nishant
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| theology101 said: | | I guess in their creed they say the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father only, while ours says and from the Son. |
Here's the Athanasian Creed,
| Quote: | | "The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding." |
We say the Word or the Son is of the Father and we say likewise that the Spirit is of the Father and just as equally that the Spirit is of the Son. This is the true Faith, professed by the Greek Fathers as well, especially St.Cyril of Alexandria, and by all the Latin Fathers including St.Ambrose and St.Augustine from the days of antiquity.
It is also the plain doctrine of sacred Scripture, and Christ says all that the Father has are His as well, which shows too that the procession of the Spirit belongs to the Son as well. It is to prove this procession that Christ breathes the Spirit onto His Apostles, says St.Augustine, as once God breathed life into Adam.
All this was defined, after careful deliberation and study, by the Catholic Church in union with the Greeks assembled there both at Lyons then at Florence, but in each case, the greatly desired union did not last, and the fall of Constantinople in 1453 to the Turks put all hopes of it to an end. They have remained in schism to the present day.
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"There will be an Ecumenical Council in the next century, after which there will be chaos in the Church. Tranquility will not return until the Pope succeeds in anchoring the boat of Peter between the twin pillars of Eucharistic Devotion and Devotion to Our Lady. This will come about one year before the end of the century." ~ St. John Bosco, "Twin Pillars prophecy", A.D. 1862.
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| Posted Jul 5, 2012, 5:18 pm |
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Sigismund
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| theology101 said: | | Vladimir said: | | theology101 said: | | Vladimir said: | | If you are stuck going to the Novus Ordo, have you tried finding a non-white Novus Ordo to go to? They are less crazy, usually. |
One might think, but here in the Southwest every parish I've been to is predominately Latino, and they have seemed to be the worst of all. Almost all Latinos here are both Catholic and Democrat, liberal as the day is long. Now, I have found that the Masses said in Spanish, usually earlier than the English Mass, seems to be MUCH more traditional, so maybe it's not a Latino thing, but an age thing- mostly older people go to the Spanish Masses. |
Sorry, I meant a non-English Novus Ordo - your observation rings very true. |
Ah, I see, and I assumed you meant that. I actually prefer the Spanish Masses to the English ones at a NO church, and even though I don't speak the language I have been around it my whole life so it's not difficult to follow along. I might even suggest go to an Orthodox church- I visited a Greek Orthodox church once and it was a beautiful mass. Also I went to an Antiochian orthodox church once and found it lovely, too. The Catholic Church does recognize the Orthodox communion, yes? We can receive communion in their churches if necessary, since they have apostolic succession? |
No. The Orthodox have valid sacraments. They may receive grace from them becasue they are sincerely convinced they are right. God can shed His grace where He pleases. But Catholics cannot receive the sacraments in an Orthodox Church. Current papal legislation does permit this under very limited circumstances, but the Orthodox, who very sincerely believe that we are the schismatics and act accordingly, will not give Catholics Communion or any other sacrament. The only possible exception I can think of is absolution in danger of death. Many would not do it even then unless the Catholic stated that he wanted to be Orthodox.
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Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spirit, and may not shrink from giving our lives for our brethren. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Thy Son, Who liveth and reigneth with Thee in the unity of the Holy Ghost, one God, world without end. Amen.
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| Posted Jul 6, 2012, 2:28 am |
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