Dino
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When the third secret is finally released it will be game over for the council. I really believe that the council makes up part of, or most of the 'Third secret of Fatima'. From what I've learned, especially from listening to Father Malachi Martin. When the third secret is released the Church will declare null and void the Second Vatican Council and go back to her roots. Modernists will be converted and souls saved. It will be Triumph of the Immaculate Heart...
The “Third Secret” was sent to Pope Pius XII with instructions that it must be opened and read to the world in 1960. Why 1960? Sister Lucia: “for then it will seem clearer.” The Pope of 1960, John XXIII did open it privately in the presence of various Cardinals and assistants. Fr. Malachi Martin, who was present, and who also read the Third Secret, reports the Holy Father’s reaction: “This is not for our times.” Pope John was already preparing Vatican Council II.
That's strange. Sister Lucia said that the Third Secret should be released no later than 1960, because at that time it would seem clearer...
http://fatima.ageofmary.com/apostasy/vatican-council-ii/
Cardinal Oddi:
Vatican II was the revolution in the Church predicted by the Third Secret
http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_052_Oddi_CCL_Fatima.htm
Father Kramer:
The Third Secret is About Vatican II
This professor is a priest that I know personally, and a number of people that I know, know this priest personally. He pressed on further for an answer, he would not back off. And he demanded, "What is in the Secret? If that’s not all of it, well, what is there?" Ratzinger’s answer makes it clear. There’s no longer any mystery why they have kept it hidden for so many years. And why the Vatican officials, during the pontificate of Pope John XXIII, said in their press release that, "It may never be published," it may not ever be released. Ratzinger said that in the Third Secret, Our Lady warns that there will be an evil council. And She warned against the changes: She warned against making changes in the liturgy; changes in the Mass. This is explicitly set forth in the Third Secret.
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr80/cr80pg32.asp
Bishop Williamson:
And here is another version of the Third Secret, as supposedly heard by a French priest in Germany in 1994, in the middle of listening to a CD of religious music. At one point the music faded into the background, and he heard a normal (not inner) voice say quite clearly, " The Church will bleed from all her wounds." Then he heard the following:
"A wicked Council will be planned and prepared which will change the face of the Church. Many souls will lose the Faith, confusion will reign everywhere. The sheep will seek in vain for their shepherds. A schism will rend my Son's tunic. It will be the end of the times, announced in Scripture and recalled by me in many places. The abomination of abominations will reach its peak and call down the chastisement announced at La Salette. The arm of my Son that I can no longer hold back, will come down on this world which will have to expiate its crimes. All that one will hear of is wars and revolutions. The elements of nature will be shaken and will strike anguish into the best (most courageous) of men. The Church will bleed from all her wounds. Blessed those who persevere and seek refuge in my Heart, for in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph..."
After which, all that the priest heard was, "That is the Third Secret of Fatima". The identity of this priest is known, but he prefers to remain unnamed. He is apparently Traditional, without belonging to the Society of St. Pius X or the Fraternity of St. Peter. He is always in a cassock. He is not sedevacantist. He passes for being worthy of belief.
http://www.sspxseminary.org/publications/rectors-letters-separator/rectors-letter/253.html
New Mass and Vatican II Condemned by Third Secret of Fatima
“...Question: Do you see a connection between the Third Secret of Fatima and the introduction of the New Mass?”
“[Fr. Kramer] Sister Lucy of Fatima, said that there would take place a diabolical disorientation in the Church. And there is nothing that could do more to bring that about than a liturgical revolution that would enshrine alien principles into a seemingly Catholic liturgy.
As a matter of fact, there is more substance to the question of a diabolical disorientation. I am referring to the part of the Third Secret of Fatima that has not yet been revealed. I know this to be a fact because I have personally spoken with a German theologian and a seminary Rector who is a longtime close fiend of Pope Benedict.
When Pope Benedict was still Cardinal Ratzinger, around 1990 he revealed to his friend that in the Third Secret of Fatima Our Lady warns not to change the liturgy: literally, not to mix extraneous foreign elements into the Catholic liturgy. Now, of course, with the new Mass of Pope Paul VI, that is exactly what was done. Elements of Protestantism, both in symbolism and in the wording of the liturgy, were brought into and mixed into a Catholic framework to the extent that the makers of the new Rite flatly stated that this is no longer the Roman Rite, it is a new creation.”
http://drpchojnowski.blogspot.ca/2009/06/new-mass-and-vatican-ii-condemned-by.html
Sister Lucia:
"Let people say the Rosary every day, Our Lady has repeated that in all of Her apparitions, as if to fortify us in these times of diabolical disorientation, in order that we not let ourselves be deceived by false doctrines …
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/crthird/sfrpg12.asp
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In this world we are all in a valley of tears. Our consolation is not here; we shall have it eternally in Paradise, if we suffer tribulations on earth. -Saint Benedict Joseph Labre
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| Posted Jun 11, 2012, 2:43 am |
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Neil Obstat
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These things are interesting, but I don't think that's it. Parts don't fit. When we hear the real thing, there won't be any doubts.
While the 3 children were seeing the vision that is described in the "official version" that was released in 2000, Lucia and Jacinta heard the words of Our Lady that constitutes the Third Secret, and is still not made known to us. What the 3 children saw must go hand in hand with what Our Lady spoke, because that is what happened in all the other visions at Fatima. What the children saw was explained by the words of the Virgin Mary. So we are left with a "bishop dressed in white" climbing a hill from a half-ruined city, toward a cross made of Portugese corkwood and stepping over corpses he passes along the way. Where is the explanation for what that means?
The priest who had the locution could be a holy man, but what he heard sounds to have been a deception. Recall that St. John of the Cross thought he was seeing Our Lord, until he tested the vision, and it disappeared.
How does "the Church will bleed from all her wounds" explain anything? What wounds? What is this "blood?"
You ought to check with Fr. Kramer, because I suspect he would tell you it's not a good idea to post this kind of thing! Tell me what he says about that!
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| Posted Jun 13, 2012, 7:40 am |
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Dino
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| Neil Obstat said: | These things are interesting, but I don't think that's it. Parts don't fit. When we hear the real thing, there won't be any doubts.
"bishop dressed in white" climbing a hill from a half-ruined city, toward a cross made of Portugese corkwood and stepping over corpses he passes along the way. Where is the explanation for what that means? |
"Father Gruner of the Fatima Crusader has made it clear that the Vatican's official version of the Third Secret is NOT the authentic version. I would not trust their version, Father Gruner says that description may have been taken from the children but that it's probably not part of the Third Secret itself....
| Neil Obstat said: | | The priest who had the locution could be a holy man, but what he heard sounds to have been a deception. Recall that St. John of the Cross thought he was seeing Our Lord, until he tested the vision, and it disappeared. |
It seems worthy of belief enough for +Williamson, Father Hesse, and others...
| Neil Obstat said: | | How does "the Church will bleed from all her wounds" explain anything? What wounds? What is this "blood?" |
My personal interpretation would be that the wounds are the errors of the Vatican II council and the loss of blood would be the resulting loss of true Catholic spirit.
| Neil Obstat said: | | You ought to check with Fr. Kramer, because I suspect he would tell you it's not a good idea to post this kind of thing! Tell me what he says about that! |
I don't want to bother Father Kramer, though I'd love to have a chance to speak with him. I was blessed to be able to speak to Father Gruner in Vancouver once. What I do know is that Father Hesse (Rev. Canon Gregorius D. Hesse, S.T.D., J.C.D.) wrote an excellent article in the Fatima Crusader (#66 page 18) which included the experience that this Traditional Priest had. Father Gruner published this article in the above issue of The Fatima Crusader. Father Gruner and Father Kramer work fairly closely....
http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr66/cr66pg18.asp
Father Paul Kramer indicates this answer in his comparison between Fatima and other — approved — apparitions, visions, and messages: he quotes Father Joaquin Alonso, who for sixteen years was the official archivist of Fatima:
It is therefore completely probable that the text makes concrete references to the crisis of faith within the Church and to the negligence of the pastors themselves [and the] internal struggles in the very bosom of the Church and of grave pastoral negligence of the upper hierarchy (Crusader 64, p.121).
This is entirely congruent with La Salette, the apparition of 1634 of Our Lady of Good Success, Quito, and a few others.
Possibly we might know the actual text of the Third Secret: There is the story of a supposedly reliable French priest who heard a supernatural message, while listening to a CD with a sort of Oratory. He claims to have heard the following lines:
There will be a wicked council planned and prepared that will change the face of the Church. Many will lose the Faith and confusion will reign everywhere. The sheep will in vain search for their shepherds. A schism will tear apart the tunic of My Son. — This will be the end of times, announced in the Holy Scriptures and recalled to memory by Me in many places. The abomination of abominations will reach its peak and it will bring the chastisement announced in La Salette. My Son’s arm, which I will not be able to hold back anymore, will punish this poor world, which has to expiate its crimes. — One will not talk but about wars and revolutions. The elements of nature will be unchained and will cause anguish, even with the best (the most courageous). The Church will bleed from all her wounds. Blessed are they who will persevere and search for refuge in My Heart, because in the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph.
There is absolutely no confirmation, let alone proof, for the authenticity of this text or message. We must not claim this to be the real Third Secret. However, it makes a lot more sense than anything the Vatican commented on, on the visional part of the Third Secret.
The heresies and the apostasy following Vatican II are of such a tragic and widespread importance that common sense demands to believe this to be the Third Secret, or part of it.
God Bless....
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In this world we are all in a valley of tears. Our consolation is not here; we shall have it eternally in Paradise, if we suffer tribulations on earth. -Saint Benedict Joseph Labre
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| Posted Jun 13, 2012, 10:58 pm |
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