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Retreat - refuge options
Graehame
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Maizar said:
At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency...


Not with my brood :). 3 sons, wives/fiances, 3 grandkids, more on the way, & the possibility of being joined by a daughter, her husband, & their kids, plus possible in-laws. I've seen some evidence of urban & suburban homesteads with truly phenomenal yields, but I'm afraid that with my crew half an acre just won't cut it.


Posted Mar 31, 2012, 12:11 pm
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Maizar
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Graehame said:
Maizar said:
At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency...


Not with my brood :). 3 sons, wives/fiances, 3 grandkids, more on the way, & the possibility of being joined by a daughter, her husband, & their kids, plus possible in-laws. I've seen some evidence of urban & suburban homesteads with truly phenomenal yields, but I'm afraid that with my crew half an acre just won't cut it.

Yes, good point. However there are some threads on here and good sources elsewhere on how to get high yield from small acreage. High intensity organic farming is still in its infancy.

Posted Mar 31, 2012, 12:36 pm
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Deo Vindice
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Graehame said:
Deo Vindice-- Wow.

"If you can't secure a couple of acres by yourself then you spent too much time in the military taking orders and not enough time thinking for yourself."

You might have assumed that anyone who can afford to shuttle 2-3 people per year back & forth to SE Alaska every 2-3 years & spend 3-4 months each trip away from our jobs, living in the back country, can afford to buy a couple of acres. It isn't lack of resources that inspired me to post the message that I did, but an awareness that resources are limited & time is short. Every penny that we can save on purchasing land can be invested in other critical resources & infrastructure.

"I'm a lawyer. And a former U.S. Marine who is ready to head for Chile. It's over here in the former republic..."

To a large extent I agree with you. It's over. But I'm not sure that the political history of-- excuse me-- but Chile? It just doesn't give me reason to think things will be a whole lot better there. I've lived all over the world, & when you come right down to it the culture & political climate in the U.S. are still 'way better than anywhere else in the world, & they're likely to remain so for some time to come.

I wasn't gonna say this, since I'm open to alternatives, but our Plan A right now involves moving to SE Alaska, where we have extensive experience. It's a roadless area where access is by boat or by float plane, low taxes, minimal gun control laws, favorable home schooling laws, & very much a climate of you leave me alone & I'll leave you alone. There is no "fusion center" for the collection of intel on U.S. citizens, & very little federal involvement in law enforcement (except for the US Forestry Service & the USCG).

"It's easy to find land."

...but suitable land is another matter.

"Being who you are and what you believe...I'll be so bold as to say that you and you're family will go to your eternal reward, if applicable, early; or you'll be moving out with little or no notice on foot, so have good boots, etc."

It sounds as if you're saying when the stuff hits the fan, we've had it. While that's an outcome we all face, I think we're a little better-prepared than you suggest. If things turn to excrement suddenly, before the move, then yeah-- we'll be in a hurt. So will we all who aren't already positioned on suitable land. But if it happens gradually, or after the move, then we'll be fine. We have pre-positioned resources at a storage unit outside the city & a way to get there, & we have plenty of experience evacuating. We lived in the New Orleans area for 8 years, including Hurricane Katrina.

"There is no being 'grey' or being under the radar or thinking that any of us are going to make it through this without taking casualties. Lots of casualties."

In the Lower 48 that is probably true. In the remote hinterlands of Alaska, much less so. I'm willing to evaluate a retreat in the Lower 48 States that I specified in my original post-- Idaho, Wyoming, & Montana-- & if it's far enough off the beaten track, then maybe.

"The criminals in government and their fellow travelers know who you are and where you live, and they hate you."

Yeah. Sucks, don't it?

"Forget about the 'elect' Christian Zionist Roman Catholic hating Survivalblog 'American Redoubt' Calvinists who are so hooked on their religious supremacism, and themselves, that they are convincing people to move to the intermountain west where the soil is poor to nonexistent for the most part, water is very scarce, decent jobs are few..."

I see you're familiar with Survivalblog. Unlike you, I regard the 'American Redoubt' plan of James Wesley Rawles as a reasonable, if not an optimum response to the situation. And Rawles himself, although a Calvinist, comes across as a well-informed survivalist. Have you any evidence that he hates Catholics?

"And remember the new player in all of this. Drones. Lots and lots of drones."

They are never far from my thoughts, which is another reason why I lean towards SE Alaska. Lots more ground for the drones to cover, lots more trees for them to try to see thru, requiring them to get closer, & lots less ambient noise to cover their engine sounds when they do. But best of all, in SE Alaska we'll be entirely off the grid. No utlity hookups, no address, the ability to camoflage our structures to blend into the terrain, & become more or less entirely self-sufficient.

"Stick with your family and avoid alliances unless and until it becomes absolutely necessary."

It's a tough call. 100% OPSEC & avoid most of the problems, or compromise OPSEC to build relationships & broaden our resources? The thing that has encouraged me in the direction of trying to build relationships is a realization that OPSEC can never be 100%, coupled with the truly daunting size of the task before us. Anything we can do to reduce the size of that task & increase the speed with which it can be accomplished is worth it, in my view.

"Admittedly, I'm a horse's backside most of the time..."

Yeah, but you can admit it. That goes a long way.

"You do not have time to begin courting people, and even if you did, it's too high risk, distracting, and takes up too much time."

That's your opinion. I think we have about 5 years before things start getting really bad. If this cooperative retreat concept doesn't work out over the next year or so then we'll be moving to Alaska in April of 2013, & the cooperative retreat idea will go back on the shelf.

Now to other matters. What led you to consider Chile, why do you consider that a superior strategy, & are you open to alternatives?


From Deo Vindice:
I think Alaska can be a good venue if a person can get a foothold and keep it. Sounds like you've got a good crew to make a life up there. I've been there on business and it was very impressive.
I thought about Chile because of the fact that it is @70% Roman Catholic according to the CIA factbook, and other things I've read.  Of course, what Catholic means these days is a good question. Although I'm not opus dei I understand that they have significant influence there, and it seems to me that at least they can throw a punch when it comes to standing up for the faith.  But then again, I really have no idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to opus dei.  I guess I respect the devotion I've seen in latino's and if Chile (and Uruguay) are still pretty Catholic I'd submit that they are worth looking at. Terrain and water in Chile seemed ok, and an adequate infrastructure; it also seems to be off the "big picture" board - at least for now. So maybe it's a good place to hunker down.  I may be way off though.

I got a bellyfull of the military and have had the same with respect to government and that is why I am so cynical.  The fact that the last 3 chairmen of the joint chiefs have been "catholic" has been extremely disillusioning to me.  (Pace, Mullen, and Dempsey).  I ate every bowl of compost that was served up to me through school, the service, etc., and look at where we are as families, a church, and as a society.  The sanctimonious "pay, pray and obey" crap has just turned my stomach totally inside out. And it still goes on when we see "catholic" colleges pimping young people for outrageous student loans and their rotc programs providing company grade officers for the Israeli-American wars of agression. (Oh boy, there I go again.  I sure have gotten my backside chewed more than once for "just not understanding" how bad the muslims are and how I have got to learn how to hate them - like the Hun, the Jap, the gook, etc.  (I know many, many people disagree with me on this.)

I simply have nothing more in common with the index of american mythologies and beliefs, including the old time worn nonsensical reply from people that "it's still the best . . . in the world", etc.  We are neck high in the blood of innocent and defenseless unborn children and when it's open season on them anything goes.

You're pointed in the right direction and I respect what you're doing for your family and the salvation of your souls.  It would be nice to have coffee together.

Some morning relatively soon I expect that we will wake up and things will be very, very different; and not in a good sense.  God respects free will.  We've brought it upon ourselves.  As the saying goes, "better a year early than a day late" when it comes to being ready to go to ground zero.
Press on.

Posted Apr 2, 2012, 5:26 pm
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