Sigismund
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When I first started reading the site, it was just Father Moderator. Then, suddenly, everything was plural. I have always wondered if he actually picked up a fellow traveler or two, or if the one priest involved just decided acting like more people would increase his trad street cred.
Things have definitely gotten crazier in Traditio-land in the years I have been reading it.
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Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spirit, and may not shrink from giving our lives for our brethren. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Thy Son, Who liveth and reigneth with Thee in the unity of the Holy Ghost, one God, world without end. Amen.
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| Posted Feb 15, 2011, 12:49 am |
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JimConditJr
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It is important that we apply the SAME STANDARDs across the board to everyone.
We cannot apply an evil motive to everything that our adversaries do, or those we disagree with do, -- and then bend over backwards to EXCUSE the exact same thing when our friends or heroes do it. It must be the same standard.
Example: Fr., now Bishop, Clarence Kelly applying very hard standards to the question of the validity of Archbishop Thuc's consecrations -- and then doing the exact same thing (secret ceremony, no cameras) when he, Bishop, Kelly, was consecrated by Archbishop Mendez.
I personally attend and play the organ at low Mass every Sunday at the Society of St. Piux V chapel/church in Cincinnati, Ohio -- because I feel they have the best position of any of the GROUPS on the crisis in the Church, without the baggage of the Thuc line, which is considerable in my judgement. The SSPX, it seems to me, ignores the Church's infallibility in the "ordinary and universal magisterium", which includes liturgy, sacraments, canon law, canonized saints, and prayers and novenas, i.e., the daily life of the Church. This is defined in Vatican I very clearly, as the 2nd aspect of the Church's infallibility, the first being ex cathedra pronouncements by the Pope, of the Pope in union with the bishops of the world at a General Ecumenical Council.
And -- SSPV has provided steady, consistent worship and solid, consistent spiritual programs for years at their chapels, as far as I can tell.
But -- that does not justify then Fr. Kelly from criticizing Archbishop Thuc for secret (no big audience like Archbishop Lefebvre allowed when he did ordinations or consecrations) consecration ceremonies and no video to prove what was done --- while allowing the same conditions to prevail when he was consecrated by Bishop Mendez.
I accept the Mendez consecration because Frs. Jenkins, Greenwell, and others of reliable character were there -- and I don't think they would say to each other after the ceremony, "We know Bishop Mendez didn't perform that ceremony correctly, but let's pretend he did." Likewise, I can't believe that Frs. Carmona and Zamora, two poor Mexican priests who had given their lives to the Church, or Fr. Gerard Deslauriers (sp?) would come out of their consecrations knowing that Thuc hadn't done the ceremony correctly, and say, "We know he didn't really make us bishops correctly, but let's spend the rest of our lives pretending he did."
This is not to address all the other issues that surround these and related questions and the various groups -- but there is no question that, in charity, we must apply the same standards across the board to everyone, friend and foe.
Jim Condit Jr.
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| Posted Feb 15, 2011, 9:58 am |
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CathMomof7
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I have been over to Traditio a few times. Personally, I find many commentaries there to be incredulous. I think the authors, who ever they are, find some story and twist the truth around in many ways.
Having said that, I cannot say that SSPX is beyond reproach. I attend a small chapel where my family receives the Sacraments. It is where we are for now. I cannot say where God will lead us in the future. I also understand the sede position and I am not willing to excoriate those who firmly hold that position, either. However, discourse, true discourse, is quite useful to pound ideas out and get to the truth.
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| Posted Feb 15, 2011, 12:11 pm |
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