Kephapaulos
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| MaterDominici said: |
| Daegus said: |
The moral of this story is: modern women are insane.
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There are still plenty of sane women in the world. It's a bit radical of a thought, but if I were a single guy looking for someone to marry, finding a woman who hasn't lost touch with her feminintiy would be more important than finding a Traditional Catholic.
Of course, the first goal would be to convert her, but I think that would be far easier than trying to work modernism out of a woman who is too deeply entrenched. |
I decided to start a thread offshooting from this post of MaterDominici that can be found on page 9 of the thread in the Catholic Living in the Modern World subforum linked here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=15641&min=80&num=10 .
How is it easier to convert a woman who is feminine and Novus Ordo or non-Catholic than working modernism out of a traditionalist women?
I seriously ask the question to learn details concerning it. Thank you to everyone who responds.
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"Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)
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| Posted Aug 27, 2011, 6:45 am |
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Daegus
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| Kephapaulos said: | | MaterDominici said: |
| Daegus said: |
The moral of this story is: modern women are insane.
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There are still plenty of sane women in the world. It's a bit radical of a thought, but if I were a single guy looking for someone to marry, finding a woman who hasn't lost touch with her feminintiy would be more important than finding a Traditional Catholic.
Of course, the first goal would be to convert her, but I think that would be far easier than trying to work modernism out of a woman who is too deeply entrenched. |
I decided to start a thread offshooting from this post of MaterDominici that can be found on page 9 of the thread in the Catholic Living in the Modern World subforum linked here: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=15641&min=80&num=10 .
How is it easier to convert a woman who is feminine and Novus Ordo or non-Catholic than working modernism out of a traditionalist women?
I seriously ask the question to learn details concerning it. Thank you to everyone who responds. |
With all due respect, I do believe Mater's opinion on the matter is a bit far-fetched, if not quite ridiculous. It doesn't matter how feminine any woman is, it's unlikely that she'll convert to the True Faith. It has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity. It's about accepting the Truth as Christ has revealed it.
Sometimes, even if you manage to get a woman like that to convert to the Catholic faith, get baptized, etc., you'll find out that even though she has all that done she's still not really even a Catholic. I say this because even converts have ways of rejecting dogmas, end up being heretics and aren't even Catholic at all. That's the real problem. Sometimes these women couldn't possibly handle the idea of there being a "Newchurch" and the New Mess being questionable at least and completely invalid at best. They can't handle that certain things are mortal sins, can't handle this and that and so on.. Really the list goes on.
I'm not saying that there aren't any feminine women out there who wouldn't convert to the true faith in its entirety, just that the vast majority of them (feminine women) are not going to convert just because you're a shining example of virtue. The majority of them likely won't even really be interested in studying councils, Church Fathers, Popes, etc. They might like the externals like the Mass, but they usually don't care for the substance of the faith. This is the problem with many false traditionalists in groups like the FSSP and the SSPX especially. I see plenty of feminine women in the FSSP. How many of them reject at least 1 dogma or 2? Basically all of them. All of them accept the Newchurch and everything it teaches. That's a problem.
I would rather look towards women who are at least somewhat traditional because there's a much greater chance that they'll actually care about the Faith than someone who's not. It's easier to work out modernism and feminism out of someone who at least cares about the Faith and can be shown that the 2 aforementioned positions can not be reconciled with Catholicism than someone who's feminine and could end up not really even caring about the Faith that much.
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For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacrament of Holy Orders. I have dropped the issues until I understand them. Please pray for me.
Furthermore, I would like to inform everyone that I will no longer identify myself with the term 'Sede vacante'. My opinion on the matter (pertaining to Benedict XVI and his predecessors) shall be as follows: Sedes non opus est determinare.
Also, for those who are wondering if I've returned to the forums: I wouldn't say I've returned per se, but I've decided to remove myself from most discussion that takes place here and read what people say. I may make a comment once every so often, but for now I prefer to take a more watchful position.
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| Posted Aug 27, 2011, 1:41 pm |
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s2srea
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| Daegus said: | | With all due respect, I do believe Mater's opinion on the matter is a bit far-fetched, if not quite ridiculous. It doesn't matter how feminine any woman is, it's unlikely that she'll convert to the True Faith. It has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity. It's about accepting the Truth as Christ has revealed it. |
With all due respect, my friend, there is a huge error in you logic. Here is what you say:
" It doesn't matter how feminine any woman is, [therefore] it's unlikely that she'll convert to the True Faith.
You have quite the negative outlook on conversions my friend. I assume most here are 'converts' to Traditionalism, including women. I think that a woman who is feminine will have an easier time converting to the Truth. Case in point is my own wife. I met her outside of Church. All of the girls at church where I'd gone were either hoochie-mammas and there because their parents forced them, or they were just bland, and unapproachable (for my own personal taste). I met my wife in college and the first thing which attraced me to her was her femininity. She liked dresses, (a good start  ) and as I got to know her, she was effiminite from within. That is, she had a natural 'instinct', if you will, for knowing what her place is.
| Quote: | | Sometimes, even if you manage to get a woman like that to convert to the Catholic faith, get baptized, etc., you'll find out that even though she has all that done she's still not really even a Catholic. |
And sometimes you find a woman like that to convert and find she truly is Catholic. Conversion isn't always the simplest of things. It takes time, and patience. The smart Catholic man will not marry her if he believes that he doesn't accept the faith in its entirety.
| Quote: | | I say this because even converts have ways of rejecting dogmas, end up being heretics and aren't even Catholic at all. That's the real problem. |
Actually, I find the real problem is with non-converts pretending to believe in dogmas, yet actually failing to carry out a Catholic life. The convert, in this case, should have a strong leader to show her what truly is Catholic; and if she is feminine at heart, she will follow and respect the authority of the one who leads her. A non-convert psudo-neo-trad would be much more difficult to deal with if she has been brainwashed to a certain point.
| Quote: | | Sometimes these women couldn't possibly handle the idea of there being a "Newchurch" and the New Mess being questionable at least and completely invalid at best. They can't handle that certain things are mortal sins, can't handle this and that and so on.. Really the list goes on. |
Again Daegus, you're generalizing here. This isn't to say that what you've said isn't true, but what you've just mentioned is for all people not Catholic.
| Quote: | | I'm not saying that there aren't any feminine women out there who wouldn't convert to the true faith in its entirety, just that the vast majority of them (feminine women) are not going to convert just because you're a shining example of virtue. The majority of them likely won't even really be interested in studying councils, Church Fathers, Popes, etc. They might like the externals like the Mass, but they usually don't care for the substance of the faith. This is the problem with many false traditionalists in groups like the FSSP and the SSPX especially. I see plenty of feminine women in the FSSP. How many of them reject at least 1 dogma or 2? Basically all of them. All of them accept the Newchurch and everything it teaches. That's a problem. |
I see a larger problem with what you just said, but I don't have the time to respond (Yard work is awaitin!)
| Quote: | | I would rather look towards women who are at least somewhat traditional because there's a much greater chance that they'll actually care about the Faith than someone who's not. It's easier to work out modernism and feminism out of someone who at least cares about the Faith and can be shown that the 2 aforementioned positions can not be reconciled with Catholicism than someone who's feminine and could end up not really even caring about the Faith that much. |
Again, you're young here. I dont' say this to discredit you, as you are (seem to be) a very knowledgable young man. I think thats great. You are very smart (objectively). But maybe your experience is still very limited with women. I think most men would (or at least I would) reject a neo-Trad over a convert. A neo Trad has already been shown the faith, and rejects it in a way. A convert either accepts or rejects the faith. If she accepts, and is feminine already, I think that is much nicer. No having to deal with a NO convert who doesn't "get it" etc.
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Fr, Réginald Marie Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.:
"The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love."
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| Posted Aug 27, 2011, 4:51 pm |
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