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Author Topic: Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism  (Read 1602 times)

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Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
« on: January 28, 2017, 02:21:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.
    Omnes pro Christo


    Offline Stubborn

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 04:35:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.


    Amazing how the theologians' and Fathers' opinions are misconstrued as the de fide Church's ordinary universal magisterium.

    The Doctrine on The Divine Providence teaches us that:
    "There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water." - Fr. Feeney

    As the words of Almighty God Himself in Matthew Ch 7, verse 8 teaches:
    "For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened."

    Haydock commentary explains the above verse:
    Whatever we ask necessary to salvation with humility, fervour, perseverance, and other due circuмstances, we may be assured God will grant when it is best for us. If we do not obtain what we pray for, we must suppose it is not conducive to our salvation, in comparison of which all else is of little moment.

    I cannot believe in a BOD without rejecting, or having extreme doubts, or having no faith at all in God's Providence.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 08:55:18 PM »
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  • Are you saying the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism is mistaken?
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 10:14:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.


    Do you, or do you not, agree with the quote I provided?
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline Matto

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 10:38:26 AM »
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  • I don't really trust the Catholic Encyclopedia, though I do read it sometimes. The reason I do not really trust it is because of an article I read about salvation where it says that more than half of mankind will probably be saved. Considering the fact that nowhere near half of mankind was even baptized, I cannot trust a source that would say something like that. It reminds me of the story that Pope Pius X was reading the encyclopedia and someone asked him what he thought about it and he said one word, "modernism" and threw it on the ground.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline happenby

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 04:02:54 PM »
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  • The Catholic Encyclopedia denies the doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla salus when it says Baptism can be effected without water.  Canons in Trent teach otherwise. As does Christ.  As have the popes.


    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 06:34:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: happenby
    The Catholic Encyclopedia denies the doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla salus when it says Baptism can be effected without water.  Canons in Trent teach otherwise. As does Christ.  As have the popes.



    While the quote may conflict with your own personal interpretation of Church teaching, it is absolutely absurd to imagine that this quote is in conflict with a proper understanding of the timeless truth you mention.  
    Omnes pro Christo

    Offline Stubborn

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 04:42:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.


    Do you, or do you not, agree with the quote I provided?


    No, it is impossible to agree with the article and at the same time be faithful to the doctrine of Divine Providence. The last sentence is especially offensive to those who have faith in the Providence of God because it is blatantly rejecting faith in His Providence and as such, is insulting to God.

    No one can save themselves, we are wholly dependent upon God to provide the means of salvation with which He Himself established and made absolutely necessary, as is taught by the Church He established to teach us how to avoid hell and get to heaven.

    If one desires to be baptized, almighty God will give one the time to do it, and the water for doing it, and the minister for doing it - just the same as He has done billions of times for every single individual who has ever been baptized and just the same as He shall do for whoever will be baptized till the end of time. Whoever rejects any part of this truth has no understanding, as such, no faith in God's providence, not even so much as of a grain of mustard seed.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Catholic Encyclopedia article on Baptism
    « Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 03:53:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1907
    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.


    This quote is no surprise to me. The Catholic encyclopedia is was printed in the USA and the writers are American clergy. Not a one Americanist contributed to the encyclopedia, was it protected by God?

    By the way, the teaching style above is in every way like the modern Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), it states a false exception to the rule, then creates a solution to for it:

    Quote
    when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood


    This exception to the rule does not exists, there are no physical or moral impossibility that God has not allowed or that He can't conquer:

    St. Augustine on the Errors of Pelagius said:

    "If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that “they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.” There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief. Now these are your words: “We say that some such method as this must be had recourse to in the case of infants who, being predestinated for baptism, are yet, by the failing of this life, hurried away before they are born again in Christ.” Is it then really true that any who have been predestinated to baptism are forestalled before they come to it by the failing of this life? And could God predestinate anything which He either in His foreknowledge saw would not come to pass, or in ignorance knew not that it could not come to pass, either to the frustration of His purpose or the discredit of His foreknowledge? You see how many weighty remarks might be made on this subject; but I am restrained by the fact of having treated on it a little while ago, so that I content myself with this brief and passing admonition".

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24