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Author Topic: Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity  (Read 5586 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
« on: April 04, 2013, 10:39:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim's thread - Conference Pt. 2
    Q/A: One excerpt

    1) Internet Anonymity:
    His Lordship said it was unmanly; that is was the cause of people saying many things they would not otherwise say had their identities been known; that we ought to stand for the truth and let the chips fall where they may; that if we were not willing to do this, we ought not post on the internet.
    Note: In response to this answer (the question having been asked by me), I will shortly reveal my identity in a subsequent post;
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    Offline Matthew

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 10:50:12 PM »
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  • I understand +W's point, but I think we have to define "Anonymity".

    How much information, exactly, do we need to give about ourselves in order to prevent that complete "cloak of darkness" that is Anonymity?

    I understand that without putting your name to something, you don't feel responsible for what you're saying. And having no sense of responsibility is why people do things like break windows and loot stores during a riot. Because they are anonymous, part of a mob, and no one will hold them accountable.

    For example, you can say anything you want in the Anonymous sub-forum. No one will even know it was you -- even though the real "you" is merely a pseudonym to begin with ("Seraphim", "Neil Obstat", "Ethelred", etc.)

    I think it's very telling that some people seek out PURE anonymity -- that picking a random screen name isn't anonymous enough for them! As if we know anything real-world about "Horatio", "Big Bird", or "Quaker".

    But in my years at CathInfo I've ran into *countless* causes where people feel the need for more anonymity than that.

    So back to my question: what is necessary to prevent this feeling of pure yokelessness?

    (In order of lack of privacy)

    * Using any screen name, but giving a LITTLE information about yourself, such as the chapel you attend, where you live, what you do for a living
    * All previous, but in addition you use a screen name such as John_D
    * All previous, but in addition you use a screen name such as John_Doe
    * All previous, but in addition you provide your telephone number
    * All previous, but in addition you provide your street address
    * All previous, but in addition you provide your drivers license, social security number, place of employment
    Etc.

    How far do we have to go? How much information do we have to give out to "be a man" and not feel like we can say anything with no accountability?


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    Offline Matthew

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 10:54:49 PM »
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  • I don't give out my last name, being the owner of a large trad Catholic forum.

    Trad Catholics can be dangerous. I've had one try to LITERALLY ruin me completely. He wanted to see me and my family out on the street with absolutely nothing. Fortunately it wasn't within his power. He called my place of work, the chamber of commerce in the nearest town, etc. He tried to destroy me seven ways from Sunday.

    I don't care who calls me a coward or less-than-a-man; I have to take precautions for my family's safety. Being the mod of one of the largest Trad Catholic fora is going to make you a certain number of enemies. I can't afford to give out enough info that my family can be affected or damaged on the whim of some enraged user that I had to ban.

    My fellow parishioners seemed to figure out easily enough that Matthew at their chapel was Matthew on CathInfo -- 8 of them wrote to Fr. Rostand and had me and my wife fired from our volunteer positions. So I wasn't too anonymous, was I.

    I guess what I'm asking is,

    Is "Matthew of San Antonio" a sufficient identifier to remove anonymity?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 10:58:05 PM »
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  • Note: Anonymous is Greek for "without name".

    Why is my online identity "Matthew of San Antonio" sufficient?

    * My name is really Matthew (not exactly "without name")
    * My online persona is just as big as my offline one -- I wouldn't want to destroy either one
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 10:58:17 PM »
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  • It's not unmanly.

    There are good reasons to keep one's identity secret.

    Positions generally don't depend on the man, they depend on the truth.

    So why should people interested in freely discussing a topic open themselves up to retaliation?  

    I recall Bishop Williamson before mentioned that Passchendaele was stupid.

    Well, giving up internet anonymity because someone thinks it's "unmanly" is stupid.


    Offline Matthew

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 11:03:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus

    I recall Bishop Williamson before mentioned that Passchendaele was stupid.


    Please elaborate. I'm not familiar with that big long P word.
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 11:07:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: Telesphorus

    I recall Bishop Williamson before mentioned that Passchendaele was stupid.


    Please elaborate. I'm not familiar with that big long P word.


    In a conference he was making a point about the futility of going up against impossible odds. That the British were slaughtered at Passchendaele.

    We don't all need to be "going over the top."  For the people who have to face potential consequences, it's not a good, and it accomplishes nothing other than to put a target on them.

    It's pretty clear internet anonymity serves a very useful purpose for all people on the political right, as political correctness (including the SSPX version) will continue to intensify.  

    The early Christians used symbols and signs to recognize each other.

    Giving up internet anonymity is really about allowing people to strike back at critics.  

    "Man up" and give out your identity is not the sort of practical advice that is needed.

    If someone wants to do it, fine, but it's not something we need to be demanding of people.

    Online Mithrandylan

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 11:12:26 PM »
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  • The point His Excellency made about anonymity is that it allows for people to say things that they wouldn't normally say (mudslinging, he said).  When you put your name behind something, then you are more likely to only post things that you should say.  

    There are many people who have online monikers that don't engage in purile adhominens.  And if you've ever read a news article or looked on a social networking site, using your identity doesn't make you immune to saying something ridiculous.

    To each his own on this one, but as someone who shares a first and last name with maybe one other person on this planet, I'll remain Mithrandylan.  If my name was Robert Jones I would have a much easier time shedding the avatar.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Exilenomore

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 05:45:46 AM »
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  • I disagree with the premise that internet anonymity is unmanly for several reasons:


    1. The comparison of exposing one's personal details on the internet with the early Christians is defective. The early Christians did make certain precautions, otherwise organised government would have been impossible. It should also be mentioned that the arians accused St. Athanasius of cowardice because he fled from their persecutions. He, however, defended his actions from Holy Writ and proved to them the distinction to be made between prudence and cowardice. Recall that there is mention, in Chapter 7 of the Gospel of St. John, of Christ making sure that He was not noticed when going to Jerusalem for a religious feast, because the time of His Crucifixion was not yet come.

    I do admit that the line between prudence and cowardice is often blurred (false prudence), but that does not change the fact that a real distinction exists.

    2. To make use of anonymity on the internet does not necessarily mean that one hides his doctrine in his daily life. A person may use an anonymous title on the internet, while boldly proclaiming the doctrine of Christ at his job before the infidels.

    3. While it is true that anonymity might make some people more loose in writing things that they should not write, it is also true that many people should not be writing in public at all. Also, a real start to help people take account of what they write would be to provide them with the means to perpetually edit their posts, so that they can actually repair to a significant degree the damage that they have caused. In days less dark than these, authors of censured writings were compelled to remove them from distribution insofar that it was possible. Such salutary attempts to repair damage wrought are more often obstructed than succeeded in on the internet.

    Offline TKGS

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 06:51:42 AM »
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  • Matthew is correct that "anonymity" is not quite as easily defined as one would think.

    I am TKGS.  Would it really matter to anyone reading my posts if I provided the name listed on my birth certificate?  People who know me "in the flesh", if you will pardon the expression, know that I am TKGS on the 3 internet forum to which I belong.  But this is because I am the same person on the internet as I am in my ordinary life.  I didn't make a formal announcement, "I am TKGS", but people knew, almost immediately after I started posting, that I am TKGS.

    Some people, on the other hand, are using the internet to make anonymous statements.  People who have second and third (and fourth, and so on) personalities on the internet and/or who have multiple screen names on a forum are the "unmanly" ones.  

    Almost nobody reading this forum would know me whether I was identified using my "legal name" but many people know me by my screen name.  As far as I have been able to determine using internet searches, there are relatively few people using screen name TKGS and all of the ones using it on traditional (or formerly traditional) forums is me.  (I found a gaming forum where someone uses this name, but that guy is clearly a "dork")

    Furthermore, when I searched my legal name on the internet, I discovered that there appears to be a large number of people who also have been given my name.  

    So...would using THAT name be less anonymous?  I don't think so.

    Offline Jehanne

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 06:54:07 AM »
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  • Simon Sheppard sits in jail:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Sheppard_(activist)

    I do not agree with all of his views, of course, but as the "gαy tide" rises, posting onymously (correct spelling) on the Internet may have its consequences here soon.  This is why I recommend using Tor:

    https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en


    Offline TKGS

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 07:09:17 AM »
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  • As an addendum to what I wrote earlier, making anonymous comments on the internet, for example, on the comments section of news stories, blogs, etc., as well as in the "Unregistered Guests" forum, is an entirely different kettle of fish--especially if you make comments that you would not be willing to make in front of your own mother.

    In fact, this is always been my standard.  I do not write anything on the internet that I wouldn't personally tell my mother.  

    Online Mithrandylan

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 08:12:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    As an addendum to what I wrote earlier, making anonymous comments on the internet, for example, on the comments section of news stories, blogs, etc., as well as in the "Unregistered Guests" forum, is an entirely different kettle of fish--especially if you make comments that you would not be willing to make in front of your own mother.

    In fact, this is always been my standard.  I do not write anything on the internet that I wouldn't personally tell my mother.  


    A good standard.

    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 09:27:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS


    Some people, on the other hand, are using the internet to make anonymous statements.  People who have second and third (and fourth, and so on) personalities on the internet and/or who have multiple screen names on a forum are the "unmanly" ones.  




    That is so very true.

    Offline s2srea

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    Bp. Williamson on Internet Anonymity
    « Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 11:00:27 AM »
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  • This is certainly a grey area. I suppose using an anonymous name is a sort of freedom which can certainly be abused. If the spirit in which it is used is noble, for example, in the way TKGS uses his name and takes his remarks seriously, then it is a good thing. But like all freedoms, people can, and do, abuse them.